A1 in mid 2023?

[RogerSmith]

Given the swirling rumor mill and potential timelines (A9III / A1II) would you consider buying an A1 new right now or try to wait? At $6500, it irks me that bit by bit there are features in Sony cameras (a7rv for example) and in competitor's cameras that the A1 lacks, and at lower price points. But...the A1 makes wonderful images, and will do so for many years to come. Appreciate thoughts...

 

[spudhead]

Given the swirling rumor mill and potential timelines (A9III / A1II) would you consider buying an A1 new right now or try to wait? At $6500, it irks me that bit by bit there are features in Sony cameras (a7rv for example) and in competitor's cameras that the A1 lacks, and at lower price points. But...the A1 makes wonderful images, and will do so for many years to come. Appreciate thoughts...

What does the a1 lack that you feel you would be missing out on?

 

[AlphaWorld]

There are advantages of buying an A1 now:

• you get the camera now!
• you know what you are getting
• it is supported by all of the RAW processors out there
• getting one at a bargain price

Let's imagine that the A1 mark II was announced tomorrow. You read the announcement, you experience a surge of desire, and you rush to place a preorder. You aren't going to have it for a while. I think my wait for the A7RV was the shortest of all the pre-orders I have done, and that was two months - longest I've waited was five months (I have pre-ordered cameras several times in the last 15 years). Then you get the camera, and you rush out and take pictures! But it is not supported in your favourite RAW processor, or your second favourite. More months before you get that support, and that's perhaps the most frustrating wait of all. Some software companies are getting faster at it, others, not as much.

And that's not counting the occasional bug in the first batch. Usually the bugs are not too bad, and get fixed in firmware, but it is disappointing to find your shiny new camera isn't perfect! On the A1 it was the mysterious behaviour of the EVF/screen switch (light coming it at a sharp angle), for example.

The big plus to waiting for a new model to drop? The excitement of getting the new and shiny. And, admittedly, the bragging rights when you have yours and others don't. Plus you get to pay the highest price, which is a great relief if you are suffering from a wallet that is too full of money.

There may be a camera which has gone up in price after release, but I don't recall seeing one - the pre-order price is generally the most expensive the camera will ever be. If you pre-order, be prepared to see others paying significantly less for their cameras even before the shiny has worn off! Well, the exception might be with Nikon, where the release of new cameras dribbles out for months, with people still paying pre-order prices six months later

The A1 is still the fastest camera Sony makes today. And while the newest arrival on the scene (the Z8) has some advantages, the A1 is still lighter and more compact. If you shop around, you can get it for a significant discount on the price we paid at pre-order time, and you can often swing a deal on buying something else at the same time (I heard of someone getting a 20-70 f/4 thrown into the deal, but I think he paid list for the camera!).

All in all, it comes down to a battle between the desire for the new and shiny vs a sensible decision, and I'm not claiming to be a good role model (the new and shiny has seduced me all too often in the past!). Do you want to be sensible? Choose from what is available now, considering what you can afford easily, and what you need. Just don't be surprised if I don't follow my own advice

 

[Gaz]

From a cost perspective, if the A1 appeals to you right now, I’d wait. It will drop when the latest flagship is released and that is likely to be imminent.

As for the A9, it lacks the pixel count expected of high end cameras at high end prices, which is the compromise for speed. I prefer my A7iv so I can crop heavy if I wish to without having to train myself in post processing.

I’m waiting for an A9iii

 

[Deleted Member 5045]

I have one question that I like to ask myself when it comes to camera gear. Do I need it, or do I want it?

If I need it then I buy it. If it's just a matter of wanting it then I also buy it... ️

Hope this helps..!

 

[Deleted Member 5003]

Hi Roger,

If you are already immersed in the sony eco system and have ready funds I would recommend securing the best deal you
can and go with the A1 now......if its a case of entering the sony eco system with an A1 purchase, that is a different question
and warrants detailed in depth consideration of many other factors, as an ex nikon shooter I personally have never regretted
making the switch.

In the absence of any solid rumour mill leads, live for the moment.....the rumour mill is very seldom accurate and favours
basing a potential multi year purchase investment on what is today rather than rolling thevdice on what might be for the future.

As an A1 user I don't lose sleep over what might have been or " if only if I had waited " . The one thing you can be sure of is that
whatever new camera comes up in the future it will favour the manufacturer whether from a commercial perspective and/or
draw into higher photography Operating or Running costs ......for which Sony have a well established track record.

The A1 stands tall against its competitors And yes there are other sony cameras with enhancements but fundamentally the
Ai is still the top dog in my view and even in consideration of more recent camera technology enhancements, if available on
the A1 today, would Be unlikely to substantially improve my shooting form, efficiency or productivity.

Hope this helps.

 

[Roland]

In my case, I would wait but I am a second hand buyer. I will eventually replace my A9ii with A1 and can’t for the A1ii to hit the market.

 

[RogerSmith]

Given the swirling rumor mill and potential timelines (A9III / A1II) would you consider buying an A1 new right now or try to wait? At $6500, it irks me that bit by bit there are features in Sony cameras (a7rv for example) and in competitor's cameras that the A1 lacks, and at lower price points. But...the A1 makes wonderful images, and will do so for many years to come. Appreciate thoughts...

You all make excellent points and ask great questions. It was asked "what does the A1 lack that I would be missing?". Yeah, that's a tough one. Honestly not much. Would it be nice to have the "latest" AF from the RV? sure, but if I can't make great images with an A1, something's wrong with me, not the camera! I guess in the end I just would like to see it drop $1K. So maybe I'll sit tight for that. Appreciate it everyone.

 

[Deleted Member 5003]

The A1 does not have a mechanical shutter and hence the traditional methodology of checking the shutter actuations from the photo data
and using that as a proportion of the design life actuations as a measure of usage does not apply.

Electronic shutters are not design life rated as far as I am aware, but in theory should be infinite.....the A9 ii certainly does have a mechanical shutter
Which I know from a very recent bad experience with my A9 ii wherein the camera developed a circuit board lock up defect at only 1800 mechanical shutter actuations and I sent it to The local Sony service center.

To cut a long story short Sony eventually replaced the main circuit board and the mechanical shutter and after 4 weeks in returning to me I noted it had a focusing problem and in giving it to them back waited another 3 weeks for them to replace the sensor.

All in it cost me $1000 for the shutter and circuit board, the sensor replacement was down to SONY AS THE FOCUS ISSUE DEVELOPED DURING THEIR REPAIR PROCESS.

A very bad experience and completely unexpected.

Sony would not accept the argument that at 1800 actuations, with no user damage to the camera,even though out of warranty, was a Sony design quality issue as the mechanical shutter is rated at 500,000 actuations and repair cost should be theirs.

Overall not one of Sony's, or my, greatest moments......!

 

[liggy]

The A1 does not have a mechanical shutter and hence the traditional methodology of checking the shutter actuations from the photo data
and using that as a proportion of the design life actuations as a measure of usage does not apply.

Electronic shutters are not design life rated as far as I am aware, but in theory should be infinite.....the A9 ii certainly does have a mechanical shutter
Which I know from a very recent bad experience with my A9 ii wherein the camera developed a circuit board lock up defect at only 1800 mechanical shutter actuations and I sent it to The local Sony service center.

To cut a long story short Sony eventually replaced the main circuit board and the mechanical shutter and after 4 weeks in returning to me I noted it had a focusing problem and in giving it to them back waited another 3 weeks for them to replace the sensor.

All in it cost me $1000 for the shutter and circuit board, the sensor replacement was down to SONY AS THE FOCUS ISSUE DEVELOPED DURING THEIR REPAIR PROCESS.

A very bad experience and completely unexpected.

Sony would not accept the argument that at 1800 actuations, with no user damage to the camera,even though out of warranty, was a Sony design quality issue as the mechanical shutter is rated at 500,000 actuations and repair cost should be theirs.

Overall not one of Sony's, or my, greatest moments......!

The A1 has a high tech mechanical carbon fiber shutter. I rarely use it but it is there. Pretty much the only time I use MS is for flash.
OP - go to FredMiranda and find a nice low mileage A1 for $4500-$5000. Thank me later.

My best shooting buddy has an A7 RV. I would not even remotely consider trading. No going back to a non-stacked sensor for me. The benefits are manifold. The RV AI trained subject recognition is cool but not a game changer. Focus stacking? Software can do that easily in post.

We both have the 200-600 and 70-200 MKII. Subjectively when we swap bodies for fun shooting birds or at the racetrack shooting cars the RV might pick up the subject a hair faster.

The A1 imo tracks better and delivers more keepers.

 

[Deleted Member 5003]

II

The A1 has a high tech mechanical carbon fiber shutter. I rarely use it but it is there. Pretty much the only time I use MS is for flash.
OP - go to FredMiranda and find a nice low mileage A1 for $4500-$5000. Thank me later.

My best shooting buddy has an A7 RV. I would not even remotely consider trading. No going back to a non-stacked sensor for me. The benefits are manifold. The RV AI trained subject recognition is cool but not a game changer. Focus stacking? Software can do that easily in post.

We both have the 200-600 and 70-200 MKII. Subjectively when we swap bodies for fun shooting birds or at the racetrack shooting cars the RV might pick up the subject a hair faster.

The A1 imo tracks better and delivers more keepers.

Agree the shutter and dust protection function is there but is not a mandatory integral function and can be switched off/isolated from the electronic shutter through the power off function........it is to be borne in mind with the dust function power on, Camera On /off operations count as a photo shots and count against the "mech shutter".......

In the above power off configuration and low flash usage the "mech shutter" count will be negligible and typically no more than 0.5% of the overall electronic shot count and far from Sony design life projections as well as meaningful camera usage projections based on the count.

 

[liggy]

II

Agree the shutter and dust protection function is there but is not a mandatory integral function and can be switched off/isolated from the electronic shutter through the power off function........it is to be borne in mind with the dust function power on, Camera On /off operations count as a photo shots and count against the "mech shutter".......

In the above power off configuration and low flash usage the "mech shutter" count will be negligible and typically no more than 0.5% of the overall electronic shot count and far from Sony design life projections as well as meaningful camera usage projections based on the count.

I’m not sure I understand what you are saying.

You can run the mechanical shutter exclusively if you so choose.

You can run in ES mode and use the mechanical shutter as a dust shield if you like. I believe you are mistaking the Z9 non-shutter for the fully capable mechanical shutter of the A1.

Here are the specs of the MS.

 

[Deleted Member 5003]

I’m not sure I understand what you are saying.

You can run the mechanical shutter exclusively if you so choose.

You can run in ES mode and use the mechanical shutter as a dust shield if you like. I believe you are mistaking the Z9 non-shutter for the fully capable mechanical shutter of the A1.

The point is you can shut off the dust shield power independantly of the ES function and therefore limit the "mech shutter" actuations count.......

 

[liggy]

The point is you can shut off the dust shield power independantly of the ES function and therefore limit the "mech shutter" actuations count.......

Uhhh… yes. That is true. But you claim the A1 has no mechanical shutter which is definitely not correct.

 

[iamdlewis]

An advantage to doing it now is that many of the current crop of used were traded by someone who didn't like the camera, so shutter clicks are usually lower, which means the entre camera had less use.

Unless the act of turning off the A1 counts as a shutter click, and keep in mind that I have had mine since March 12, 2021, I would guess my count is less than 10. So I would not put much weight into shutter count for the A1 as it really isn't something that needs to be used.

 

[liggy]

Unless the act of turning off the A1 counts as a shutter click, and keep in mind that I have had mine since March 12, 2021, I would guess my count is less than 10. So I would not put much weight into shutter count for the A1 as it really isn't something that needs to be used.

It only counts if you have the dust shield closure function enabled.

 

[Deleted Member 5003]

Fundamentally you are correct, but not sure I would be buying a $6000 camera with an ES 30fps capability only to favour or focus on a10fps
capable "mech shutter" and in so doing, without ES isolation, degrade the perceived "user age" of the overall camera......sounds like the tail
wagging the dog from a practical perspective.

Can't think of any shooters I know who are doing this.......but each to his own....

 

[liggy]

Fundamentally you are correct, but not sure I would be buying a $6000 camera with an ES 30fps capability only to favour or focus on a10fps
capable "mech shutter" and in so doing, without ES isolation, degrade the perceived "user age" of the overall camera......sounds like the tail
wagging the dog from a practical perspective.

Can't think of any shooters I know who are doing this.......but each to his own....

If you actually bothered to read my initial reply you would already know that I only use the MS for flash.
And why you would claim that the A1 has no mechanical shutter still confuses me because it is flat out wrong.

In what might be 50,000 images or so captured I think my actual shutter count is about 1,400

 

[AlphaWorld]

The A1 has a high tech mechanical carbon fiber shutter. I rarely use it but it is there. Pretty much the only time I use MS is for flash.
OP - go to FredMiranda and find a nice low mileage A1 for $4500-$5000. Thank me later.

My best shooting buddy has an A7 RV. I would not even remotely consider trading. No going back to a non-stacked sensor for me. The benefits are manifold. The RV AI trained subject recognition is cool but not a game changer. Focus stacking? Software can do that easily in post.

We both have the 200-600 and 70-200 MKII. Subjectively when we swap bodies for fun shooting birds or at the racetrack shooting cars the RV might pick up the subject a hair faster.

The A1 imo tracks better and delivers more keepers.

Just a question: why are you using the mechanical shutter for flash? I have never used the mechanical shutter on my A1, and I have used it in studio with strobes many times - I get a 1/200 flash sync with the electronic shutter. Yes, I can get 1/400 sync with the mechanical shutter (the one place that the mechanical shutter is better specced than the electronic), but I don't need 1/400.

The one thing that makes me glad that it still has the mechanical shutter is the issue of LED lights and those annoying bars on cheaper lights. Haven't needed to resort to it yet, but it's there in case

 

[liggy]

Just a question: why are you using the mechanical shutter for flash? I have never used the mechanical shutter on my A1, and I have used it in studio with strobes many times - I get a 1/200 flash sync with the electronic shutter. Yes, I can get 1/400 sync with the mechanical shutter (the one place that the mechanical shutter is better specced than the electronic), but I don't need 1/400.

The one thing that makes me glad that it still has the mechanical shutter is the issue of LED lights and those annoying bars on cheaper lights. Haven't needed to resort to it yet, but it's there in case

Because I don't really know what I am doing with flash.

I wanted the flexibility to go faster if needed. Next time I'll try ES. Thanks for asking the question!

 

[iamdlewis]

Because I don't really know what I am doing with flash.

I wanted the flexibility to go faster if needed. Next time I'll try ES. Thanks for asking the question!

I think I remember seeing Manny Ortiz talking about the A1 and flashes and saying something about it actually syncing faster with the ES than documented.

I concede, but it's a broad brush to assume everyone does the same thing.

I do believe you stand a better chance of scoring a low-use camera if you choose one from the current batch rather than wait until the latest-and-greatest crowd trades theirs in for a new release.

Was just a general note not directed at anyone. I agree that you are probably going to fine more lightly used copies of A1s today than after the announcement of the A1ii.
I also think that until a global shutter hits the market we are only going to see like 5% improvements in cameras from generation to generation. I am excluding mp count in that statement because there are 150mp cameras out there and does moving from 24 to 33 count if other cameras have more?

The one thing that makes me glad that it still has the mechanical shutter is the issue of LED lights and those annoying bars on cheaper lights. Haven't needed to resort to it yet, but it's there in case

There is that feature in which you can sync up to avoid the banding when using ES. I remember reading and hearing about it but I have never used it.

 

[Deleted Member 5045]

I'll give a proper opinion this time...

It has been mentioned and wholeheartedly agreed that the current A1 is absolutely brilliant and has over and beyond all the features ANY photographer could ever need. But the fact of the matter is that an A9III or an A1II isn't too far away, and suddenly your greatest camera ever isn't the greatest camera no more. For most people this would play on their mind I'd imagine.

So how about this, you decide you truly want an A9III or an A1II but really do want to upgrade right this minute too. You buy an A1 now, use it till a new model is out, sell your A1 for $1,000 less than you bought it for and pay the difference for the new body.

At the end of the day, you get the next 6-12 months of using an A1 which ends up costing you $1,000, quality value there I think!

That's my opinion on this now. When an A7RVI comes out, I will buy it, sell my body which always still look like brand new any way. Then it cost me $1,500-$2,000 to use the body that I adore for however long it is the latest one. I could write down many things which I care about far less that I spend more money than that on and don't even bat an eyelid, so this ideology here is a no brainer in my opinion. I think I speak for all of us here where I can't put a price on the importance of photography in my life. So if funds allow, treat it as such.

Hope this one helps...

 

[Deleted Member 5045]

You heard it here first, folks! @Deleted Member 5045 is willing to sell his body for a new camera!

At least his body still looks brand new. At 65, mine looks a bit used...

My 'free to a good home' policy has changed. ️

 

[Deleted Member 5045]

The point is you can shut off the dust shield power independantly of the ES function and therefore limit the "mech shutter" actuations count.......

Seeming that the shutter comes down inside the sensor cavity, this function is pretty much pointless in my opinion. So effectively the dust which would have landed on the sensor now lands on the shutter, then once the lens seals it up and you continue on shooting, the dust ends up on the sensor or rear lens element.

As always I still just have my blower in hand and change lenses whilst sheltering the cavity. No 'dust protector', no dramas. ️

 

[iamdlewis]

Interesting you mention the global shutter. You don't hear much about them anymore. With cameras like the A1, Canon's R whatever, and Nikon's Z8 and 9 (which really don't have mechanical shutters), is the need for a global shutter reduced to zero? I mean, if you can get 20 or 30 FPS with no rolling shutter, how many more frames do you need in a second? Is something going to happen between the 25th and 26th frame of a 50FPS burst that you'd miss with a 30FPS burst?

With a global shutter yes the FPS will probably get to some beyond stupid number since the senor will no longer be a factor and pure processing power the only limiting factor. I think a global shutter will allow for a big leap in AF recognition and tracking (lens will be the holdup) vs the more incremental increases we have seen since the release of the A9.

What I think would be more interesting with a global shutter is the options it could potentially have. One that I can think of is that right now you have a single shutter speed because the sensor reads in a specific pattern but with a global shutter you could have the shutter read in multiple speeds because it can read any node at any time. You could also do multiple focus points in a single shot. I don't know how all of that would work with the controls we have today but it should be possible.

 

[spudhead]

Interesting you mention the global shutter. You don't hear much about them anymore. With cameras like the A1, Canon's R whatever, and Nikon's Z8 and 9 (which really don't have mechanical shutters), is the need for a global shutter reduced to zero? I mean, if you can get 20 or 30 FPS with no rolling shutter, how many more frames do you need in a second? Is something going to happen between the 25th and 26th frame of a 50FPS burst that you'd miss with a 30FPS burst?

Maybe for some highly specialized shooting, but short of that, it seems like we're reached the point of diminishing returns.

so regarding frame rate I know people brag that the first frame to last are all as good and in perfect focus, on these high rate cameras but that is not true in reality, people get less subjective about these things, only having got the much maligned a9 mk1 that everyone knocks for low megapixel count and having a built in filter that destroys images apparently, there seems to be a lot of people suddenly interested in the up coming a9iii. the other thing is memory cards on the a9 I only get 12-1300 images on a 64g card with a9 24 megapixel at 20 frames it would soon fill so 50 meg must be a nightmare shooting full tilt

 

[AlphaWorld]

I think I remember seeing Manny Ortiz talking about the A1 and flashes and saying something about it actually syncing faster with the ES than documented.


Was just a general note not directed at anyone. I agree that you are probably going to fine more lightly used copies of A1s today than after the announcement of the A1ii.
I also think that until a global shutter hits the market we are only going to see like 5% improvements in cameras from generation to generation. I am excluding mp count in that statement because there are 150mp cameras out there and does moving from 24 to 33 count if other cameras have more?


There is that feature in which you can sync up to avoid the banding when using ES. I remember reading and hearing about it but I have never used it.

I thought it was fine-tuning the mechanical shutter. Hmm, I better go back and re-read that section!

 

[AlphaWorld]

so regarding frame rate I know people brag that the first frame to last are all as good and in perfect focus, on these high rate cameras but that is not true in reality, people get less subjective about these things, only having got the much maligned a9 mk1 that everyone knocks for low megapixel count and having a built in filter that destroys images apparently, there seems to be a lot of people suddenly interested in the up coming a9iii. the other thing is memory cards on the a9 I only get 12-1300 images on a 64g card with a9 24 megapixel at 20 frames it would soon fill so 50 meg must be a nightmare shooting full tilt

I started using 128GB SD cards on the A7RIV, shooting uncompressed RAW files (123MB, give or take).
The A1 gives me a lot more files on those same cards because it offers lossless compressed files, which are substantially smaller.

However, if you are shooting at 20 and 30 fps, you'll be shooting lossy compressed RAW, and yes, the A1 files will be substantially larger (like around double the size compared to the A9). I'd suggest using 128GB SDs or 160GB CFeA cards (they are now a bit cheaper than they were...) - you'll fit double the number of files on each 128GB card as you would on a 64GB, even more on a 160GB card.

If the A9III continues with the same pixel count as the A9 and A9II, then you can probably stick with the same cards. I think that's a real possibility - Sony's customers at some big press organisations might have a bigger say in the pixel count than any of us.

 

[AlphaWorld]

Sony has pretty much abandoned Antialiasing filters, that's a good thing. Having used both there is a noticeable difference. The other thing we can look forward to on Sony's new releases is Lossless Compressed RAW. According to them, it reduces file size by 60-70%. In other words, you could keep more files from an A7 IV on the same size card. Problem: Not all processing programs recognize Sony's Lossless Compressed yet.

Yes, the AA filter that was a must in the days of the 8Mp sensor is not required when the sensor is 50Mp +

All the processors I use recognise Sony lossless compressed real RAW files; but there are some (like DxO) that don't recognise the "reduced resolution pseudo-RAW" files. For the A7RV the 60Mp FF and 26Mp APS-C files are recognised, but 15Mp files are not/

I think it's more accurate to say that Sony's lossless compression reduces file size TO 60-70% of original, not BY 60-70% - subtle difference in wording, but important. The lossless compressed files are still bigger than the lossy compressed files (which are about 50% of the size of the uncompressed).

 

[Roland]

I assume, there is an electronic shutter counter, since the camera has to keep track of the number that each exposure gets. The number in the meta data can be changed by the user in the menu but the master number is still in the camera somewhere. Maybe, one of those 16 year old hackers can find it.