Grey Imports

[Thad E Ginathom]

Part of the price in the country is to pay for the warranty support in the country.

They could just as easily apply this worldwide: part of the price is to pay for the warranty. One way or another, locally or internationally, it is an expense against the profits.

The main reason that they do it is not accounting for warranty expenses: it is because they have differential pricing. If there were no way to dissuade the customer from buying somewhere cheaper, direct or through grey imports, their differential pricing would take a hit. That could cost them a lot more than the occasional repair being charged against a "wrong" country.

(Last time I looked, I could buy Sony camera gear somewhat cheaper here than in UK, so perhaps I benefit from differential pricing! I'm not complaining too loudly!)

 

[Unframed Dave]

The value of the yen relative to the country of origin is relevant. I'm told prices in Australia are quite favourable currently.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

The value of the yen

Yes, true. Exchange rates do play their part, as do the import duties of different nations. I mustn't only blame Sony!

 

[AlphaWorld]

They could just as easily apply this worldwide: part of the price is to pay for the warranty. One way or another, locally or internationally, it is an expense against the profits.

The main reason that they do it is not accounting for warranty expenses: it is because they have differential pricing. If there were no way to dissuade the customer from buying somewhere cheaper, direct or through grey imports, their differential pricing would take a hit. That could cost them a lot more than the occasional repair being charged against a "wrong" country.

(Last time I looked, I could buy Sony camera gear somewhat cheaper here than in UK, so perhaps I benefit from differential pricing! I'm not complaining too loudly!)

Each country has its own Sony company, and it's that company which bears the cost of warranty repairs, and has to account for things like the cost of bringing cameras and spare parts into the country (stuff likes local taxes, etc), and the cost of labour in that country - either the cost of employing people to do the repairs, or the cost of hiring the repair work out to a third party. It's perfectly normal business practice to do all that accounting inside the local company (there may be countries which are handled by a Sony company in another country, but I don't know of one).

Handling it globally would be more complicated (exchange rates, local laws, etc).

This is how multi-national companies work. It's not just Sony - I know Canon and Nikon work the same way (I don't know if other camera companies are different). And it's not just cameras, either. Lots of other industries work the same way - it's all part of multinational company behaviour.

I'm not going to explain all the details of why the grey market exists - you can find out more about it if you Google for it - but sometimes the grey market products are the same as in other countries, and sometimes they are not - one example is the lack of an NTSC / PAL switch on some grey market products - the market they were made for uses one of those two, and in an attempt to discourage grey marketing of the cameras outside that market, they maker removes the ability to switch. Another example is cameras which only operate is a limited number of languages - I believe Sony restricts some cameras to Japanese so they can sell cameras inside Japan at a somewhat lower price without supplying grey market buyers. I think it's nice that Sony offers something of a discount to the people in their home country.

All up, I think it might be possible for a company like Sony to eliminate the grey market opportunity, but it would be by raising the prices of their products to the highest price charged anywhere in the world - no local country discounts. They could offer a global warranty, but we'd all be paying more (except for people living in the country that was already paying the most, perhaps, but perhaps not - the costs of managing things on a global basis would likely be higher). They would sell fewer cameras, and a lot of price-sensitive people would go to other companies.

I hope they don't do that.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

It's perfectly normal business practice

Covers a multitude of sins. And does not negate the assertion that Sony (and others) want to maintain differentials (subject to my previous post).

I know they are not unique, but I was aware of this with Sony long before I had anything to do with their cameras.

Call me an idealist, but hey, I'm just a customer. Worldwide company should offer worldwide service. Whilst, at the same time, protecting its various interests in so far as it can.

It's the way it is is not an answer. The way it is is entirely up to them.

I have no current plans to take my Sony gear out of the country in which I bought it. Grey market is available here too, but we do not have the luxury of dealers offering a warranty which may be even better than Sony's own. Given that, for me to buy grey here, I would regard it same as buying used, and the price would have to be commensurate. Some of my gear is second-hand, but, currently, none of it is grey.

 

[AlphaWorld]

Covers a multitude of sins. And does not negate the assertion that Sony (and others) want to maintain differentials (subject to my previous post).

I know they are not unique, but I was aware of this with Sony long before I had anything to do with their cameras.

Call me an idealist, but hey, I'm just a customer. Worldwide company should offer worldwide service. Whilst, at the same time, protecting its various interests in so far as it can.

It's the way it is is not an answer. The way it is is entirely up to them.

I have no current plans to take my Sony gear out of the country in which I bought it. Grey market is available here too, but we do not have the luxury of dealers offering a warranty which may be even better than Sony's own. Given that, for me to buy grey here, I would regard it same as buying used, and the price would have to be commensurate. Some of my gear is second-hand, but, currently, none of it is grey.

I already said you could get a world-wide warranty, but it would mean we'd all be paying more - is that what you want?

So I'm not saying "it's the way it is" - I'm saying it would be more expensive to do it the way you want. Not just for you, but for everyone. I'm not so keen to be paying more for your idealism.

 

[Unframed Dave]

At the end of the day, it comes down to user choice. Me, I'm a sucker for good value. That and I've owned, probably around fifty modern photography lenses and cameras in the last twenty years. Not a single fault that I can remember that would have been covered by warranty.

I tell a lie, I bought an underwater olympus miu that had a foggy screen. I took it back to the jessops store to be told, it was normal as it had been underwater. I asked to speak to someone who spoke sense and got a replacement.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

I already said

You described the economic model as you see it, and as you accept it. I'm not saying it isn't that way, but one has to take into account the subjective too. Economics is not a hard science. Part of my subjective view point is that companies will always do what benefits them. Necessarily: it is their purpose to make profit. But there are swings and balances.

 

[AlphaWorld]

At the end of the day, it comes down to user choice. Me, I'm a sucker for good value. That and I've owned, probably around fifty modern photography lenses and cameras in the last twenty years. Not a single fault that I can remember that would have been covered by warranty.

I tell a lie, I bought an underwater olympus miu that had a foggy screen. I took it back to the jessops store to be told, it was normal as it had been underwater. I asked to speak to someone who spoke sense and got a replacement.

Very good point.

I've owned, I think, 9 Sony bodies, and more than ten bodies from other manufacturers in the digital era. I had a camera recalled and repaired (it hadn't failed) about fifteen years ago. Another camera was recalled a couple of years later, but I'd already sold it, so I informed the buyer. Apart from those two recalls, I haven't had a failure - under warranty or otherwise. Whether that's because cameras are a lot more reliable now, or I treat my cameras gently, or a bit of both, I do not know. I am quite happy that it has worked out like that.

Despite that, I buy non-grey market bodies and lenses. I think one of the reasons is because I pre-order a lot of my bodies (and some lenses). I own four Sony cameras at the moment, and I pre-ordered all of them. I don't know if it's possible to get grey market pre-orders. So maybe I'm an unusual case.

As a pre-order buyer, I have to accept some limitations - one is the wait for my camera to arrive. Another is (usually!) the wait for RAW support from the various RAW processing packages - it was a delight (and a surprise) to discover that my latest acquisition was already supported when I received it. And while you can sometimes get a small discount, buying pre-order pretty much guarantees you'll be paying the highest price (it's common to see the camera 10% cheaper not all that long after release). So there are downsides to buying a camera the way that I do.

There are downsides to buying a camera from the grey market, too. The warranty issue is one, and the occasional limitation (like PAL vs NTSC) is another. But the grey market can be a lot cheaper (especially compared to pre-order).

It seems fair to me that there are plusses and minuses each way.