Ok so do any of us on here feel we learn anything from the open chat posts or from other peoples posts, shots

[spudhead]

As title just wondering if members feel they learn anything from the open chat posts, members shots, or remarks. ok so have a say do you think we learn from each other?

 

[Uncle Kevriano]

Good topic Gary, given conversations elsewhere.

I think people can learn, definitely, but have to be willing to accept critique and ideas to help them improve. That is something that is seriously lacking, not just here, but all over photography groups and pages. I for one, would be more than happy I'd someone pointed out something I was going wrong either in composition or processing or obvious technique flaw (wrong shifter speed for the subject, or wrong DOF for example). I'd also be happy to explain why I use certain settings for things too, but there just doesn't seem to be enough interest in anything like that.
I get it, I get that people can be blind to any errors they may be making, and don't like being told they are doing so, but surely the dim as a photographer is to constantly improve?
What do we learn from what I have said.... That people are weird

 

[spudhead]

Good topic Gary, given conversations elsewhere.

I think people can learn, definitely, but have to be willing to accept critique and ideas to help them improve. That is something that is seriously lacking, not just here, but all over photography groups and pages. I for one, would be more than happy I'd someone pointed out something I was going wrong either in composition or processing or obvious technique flaw (wrong shifter speed for the subject, or wrong DOF for example). I'd also be happy to explain why I use certain settings for things too, but there just doesn't seem to be enough interest in anything like that.
I get it, I get that people can be blind to any errors they may be making, and don't like being told they are doing so, but surely the dim as a photographer is to constantly improve?
What do we learn from what I have said.... That people are weird

Thanks Kev for the reply, I sort of feel like there is a them and us attitude on here, we have a lot of knowledge on here and years of experience, but we seem to have those who are deaf to it , and those who jump up and down with their hand up shouting listen to me this how it done and it is the only way it is done. But then again what do I know, just wish we would rub along better and retain more members and get more people involved in thread and replies etc

 

[Deleted Member 5045]

I will add another comment tomorrow because I'm about to go to sleep, but one thing I will add is something I not only see here but also in every other aspect of my life. People who are content to just be another number without really progressing or achieving anything. I don't really understand lack of passion and commitment because I've only ever known to give things my all.

As far as I'm concerned, if I see images which are better than mine then it means I have work to do, and so I have A LOT of work to do! Keep putting in the hours and learning in the fear of going sideways or worse, backwards.

How people can be happy just being pedestrian bystanders is something I cannot fathom!

Good night...

 

[GT12]

Good topic Gary, given conversations elsewhere.

I think people can learn, definitely, but have to be willing to accept critique and ideas to help them improve. That is something that is seriously lacking, not just here, but all over photography groups and pages. I for one, would be more than happy I'd someone pointed out something I was going wrong either in composition or processing or obvious technique flaw (wrong shifter speed for the subject, or wrong DOF for example). I'd also be happy to explain why I use certain settings for things too, but there just doesn't seem to be enough interest in anything like that.
I get it, I get that people can be blind to any errors they may be making, and don't like being told they are doing so, but surely the dim as a photographer is to constantly improve?
What do we learn from what I have said.... That people are weird

Kev. I’m pretty new to the forum but when I joined, Tim pointed out two helpful things — note if open to constructive criticism in your profile (which I don’t see on yours) and also put items into the critique lounge if you really want critique. Just a thought that feedback is more likely in most things in life if visible that folks want it. I learn a lot reading the threads and appreciate the debate.

 

[Deleted Member 5003]

Agree fully with the above posts......successful, growing organisations have a strong learning culture along with a willingness to

Openly discuss constructive product quality critique........


Unfortunately this forum has over time generated a culture whereby any form of critique very quickly descends into a verbal gunfight for

which we are all guilty to a greater of lesser degree, is often dog pack/sub group/clique based, and hence learning is quashed/discouraged and

overtime seems to have generated a system of photo gladhanding only rather than providing a sociable atmosphere wherein the very product of all our

efforts(photos) can be critiqued/encouraged in a constructive and transparent manner....


The above said, there is a very much vibrant member respose to member/guest calls for information and /or support generally but given

the years of photography experience within the forum group,and the 3 or more years since the forum was formed, it is seems clear that the

Forum does not yet at this time provide for an open and effective photo appraisal function to existing and/or new members and guests

and is a key negative differentiator of the AS Forum from its competitor websites in my view.

 

[Uncle Kevriano]

Kev. I’m pretty new to the forum but when I joined, Tim pointed out two helpful things — note if open to constructive criticism in your profile (which I don’t see on yours) and also put items into the critique lounge if you really want critique. Just a thought that feedback is more likely in most things in life if visible that folks want it. I learn a lot reading the threads and appreciate the debate.

Well I hadn't noticed that part in the profile. I suspect it wasn't there when it first started and I joined, and I don't look at settings etc. I'll go and put it on.
I will say no one ever posts in the critique lounge either, so maybe people just don't want the feedback, which is fine.
What Gary says about everyone getting along is right, it's how it should be in the main (there will always be device characters, that the internet for you!)
There certainly is a bit of them and us here, but as Gary said, some of us are old and have donkeys years of experience, why not draw on it if you really are passionate and keen to improve?
I am glad that you forget something out of reading the posts though, the serious ones at least

 

[evacguy]

I for one (as a beginner) very much appreciate the open discussions and very much appreciate the constructive feedback I've received, and I like reading the constructive feedback given to others. I also like seeing the work of other photographers (especially if they are using similar equipment, hence one of the appeals of this group), as this allows me to gauge where I am in my current development and stretch my ambitions. However, giving constructive advice is not easy, believe me I know as I have successfully supervised over 35 doctoral students to completion - some of which have had difficult personalities. Sometimes, people who need advice and ask for advice don't necessarily want to listen to the advice, especially if it challenges a preheld belief. However, if the advice is good and given in a polite and respectful way, the receipient will usually eventually come around.

And in photography, like any artisitic effort, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, what looks good to one does not necessary look good to another. Advice on what looks good or looks better is very subjective and so there is lots of room to disagree without causing offense on either side. However, it's good to know what others like/dislike, especially if they can articulate the what and why. After all, there is no universally agreed objective measure of beauty and so its always good to hear others 'opinions' - especially if it's asked for.

For someone like me, with little experience (about 1 year now), no training, not attended any courses, who does not have an artistic bone in his body, and who has come to photography later in life, perhaps the most valuable advice addresses technique, process, equipment and subject matter. Finally, email and discussion fora (such as this) are not necessarily the best way to give and recieve advice, especially if a discussion is required. Shooting off an email or making a text based comment and replying to an email or text based comment can often (usually unintentionally) come across as advisorial or be misinterpreted as the words are either clumsily written or don't actually convey the meaning. I think everyone would agree that it is much better to have a face to face or digital face to face discussion. But as this is not always possible, groups like this are the next best thing.

Please feel free to comment or discuss

 

[FowlersFreeTime]

As title just wondering if members feel they learn anything from the open chat posts, members shots, or remarks. ok so have a say do you think we learn from each other?

I feel that I don't post enough pictures to get the benefit of learning from critique, but I am inspired to pick up my camera when I see what you all share. I also get the principles of what is being discussed, like Ed's photos with the massive tree in front of the Inn, but I don't think it my place to offer criticism.
Actually, I think as a community we could use the Critique subform more often, so we can demonstrate when we are open to critique and it doesn't seem... antagonistic when we do receive feedback? maybe too strong a word, but you know what I mean right?

 

[Unframed Dave]

I came here to learn, more about Sony and more about photography generally. So, yes, I hope I listen.

Fora are like pubs, without the added benefits of alcohol to aid the sense of humour, but also without the aid of alcohol when things get emotional.

I try to consider what I'd say face to face to someone when responding in anything less than a fawning response. Some times it works, sometimes it doesn't. Interpretation of the written word lacking any body language or tone, is difficult. This is why not everyone is a best selling novelist. If you think you write glorious prose, try writing a book for five year olds, I did and the criticism I got was beyond vicious, although they all liked the title.

At the end of the day, every day is a school day and the man who thinks he knows everything is often the biggest fool in the room. Cliché, cliché, blah, blah, blah.

 

[spudhead]

Agree fully with the above posts......successful, growing organisations have a strong learning culture along with a willingness to

Openly discuss constructive product quality critique........


Unfortunately this forum has over time generated a culture whereby any form of critique very quickly descends into a verbal gunfight for

which we are all guilty to a greater of lesser degree, is often dog pack/sub group/clique based, and hence learning is quashed/discouraged and

overtime seems to have generated a system of photo gladhanding only rather than providing a sociable atmosphere wherein the very product of all our

efforts(photos) can be critiqued/encouraged in a constructive and transparent manner....


The above said, there is a very much vibrant member respose to member/guest calls for information and /or support generally but given

the years of photography experience within the forum group,and the 3 or more years since the forum was formed, it is seems clear that the

Forum does not yet at this time provide for an open and effective photo appraisal function to existing and/or new members and guests

and is a key negative differentiator of the AS Forum from its competitor websites in my view.

Ok Ray you have posted as per your normal style, veiled comments as expected, I would prefer you say exactly what you mean after all you are not usually lost for an expert view on any topic, I actually think you have poked the so called dogs you mention until they bite back. I would doubt any of us could possibly teach you anything to be honest. example the photo stacking thread I simply asked if you had any images of photo stacking and of course, no just theory, Clint had answered and posted supporting images and was bulldozed and blanked by op as well as have you more or less say he was wrong. Glad handing as you call it, what is with Your threads you post and reply to every single like, I suppose you pass that off as polite, why do you think I started to do it? I can go on and of course we have had our issues but less said the better, so what I am saying? as with your reply read between the lines

 

[Landshark99]

For me, I am drawn to these forums for two simple reasons and the open forum discussions are part of that.
First with just a little humility I feel a need to give back, pay it forward sort of thing with my many years in this field. If I can help someone to achieve their creative goals with suggestions from my experience I am glad.
Secondly when I first started in this business I sold cameras in both amateur and pro camera shops, I learned a lot but was always fascinated on what others saw and shot with the cameras I sold them. One of the stores I worked at used to put on photo fairs with equipment seminars and free access to model shoots. I was intrigued with what was shot, loved watching the action. Later when I was an assistant with a few different professional photographers, I was taught a lot, but many times found a reluctance for them to share what they perceived to be their special techniques. I always found that feeling a little strange and paranoid, so when I started teaching workshops, I decided not to hold back whatever I knew that could help my students. I was blown away with how different we all see, how unique each mind approached the creation of an image. In the end I think they taught me more than I taught them.
Joining this forum like other photo forums for me is way to continue to see and learn what others create with their vision. For example before I came here I never knew how big a thing it was to shoot BIF imagery. So many of you are so very talented at that, its amazing.
On the other hand like too many forums some discussions get way off topic and lost in personalities. I also find many may ask for help or critiques but many also get uncomfortable with the notes. In the end I find these discussion helpful in nurturing this community

 

[alexpler]

The big truth in life is that, most of the time, when someone asks you "What do you think about this?", they actually don't want you to tell them what do you think. They most probably just want you to reinforce what they are already thinking.

When I'm in doubt and ask for opinion, I listen to what I'm told and learn from the vision of different eyes from mine. It's always refreshing to get a second opinion and helps you in developing your style and skill by improving your flaws and reassuring your strengths. Politeness is key by all means.

A photographer should be humble. Humble when facing the world around in search of the next photo. Humble when getting feedback from other photographers. Humble when checking other photographers' work.

I sure get inspired and learn from what other users post, specially in those genres that are not my style and make me wonder how that could be achieved. That's why I joined this forum.

 

[Deleted Member 5003]

Ok Ray you have posted as per your normal style, veiled comments as expected, I would prefer you say exactly what you mean after all you are not usually lost for an expert view on any topic, I actually think you have poked the so called dogs you mention until they bite back. I would doubt any of us could possibly teach you anything to be honest. example the photo stacking thread I simply asked if you had any images of photo stacking and of course, no just theory, Clint had answered and posted supporting images and was bulldozed and blanked by op as well as have you more or less say he was wrong. Glad handing as you call it, what is with Your threads you post and reply to every single like, I suppose you pass that off as polite, why do you think I started to do it? I can go on and of course we have had our issues but less said the better, so what I am saying? as with your reply read between the lines

Hi Gary I am neither inexperienced, stupid or loathe to share my views and/or experience, but nevertheless I accept your views and you can make whatever you may of my comments and opinions I have no issue.

Yes my mail is provocative and it was intended to be so. If as proposed in your mail/question, you would like the forum to take on board valid comments, ideas and opinions as regards exploring if the forum is a learning organisation, then my mail is very relevent and there is little benefit in masking the real underlying views of the forum supporters.

You may raise concerns over my responses as regards focus stacking theory but if you look back to my earlier images I posted many focus stacked images with 0 response and I am not in the business of wasting my time..........your point relating to raising a response to every like with a personalised response is absolutely my way of acknowledging members/guests appreciation and time as I equally proffer my likes for images which I truly feel are of good quality but refrain from commenting on images which could be very easily mproved, (for the very negative reasons I outlined in my post) and hence I clearly I do not share your apparent concerns around this.

If you really want to take this matter to the mat then look no further than the stats for the oracle of delphi who seems to have capttured top legendry status on the forum with the lowest media contribution but highest level of one liners and devisive verbage.......a corresponding analysis, if you have taken the time to look at such analytics, is that on a membership duration, posts and media % contribution you will find there is no more than. 5 or 6 consistent contributors with balanced posts and media......as opposed to talkers only.

Again I will not hesitate to engage, support and commit to all on the forum but will not tolerate rank stupidity particularly when directed at me personally, and at which point I will disengage as I have done in the past.

 

[spudhead]

Hi Gary I am neither inexperienced, stupid or loathe to share my views and/or experience, but nevertheless I accept your views and you can make whatever you may of my comments and opinions I have no issue.

Yes my mail is provocative and it was intended to be so. If as proposed in your mail/question, you would like the forum to take on board valid comments, ideas and opinions as regards exploring if the forum is a learning organisation, then my mail is very relevent and there is little benefit in masking the real underlying views of the forum supporters.

You may raise concerns over my responses as regards focus stacking theory but if you look back to my earlier images I posted many focus stacked images with 0 response and I am not in the business of wasting my time..........your point relating to raising a response to every like with a personalised response is absolutely my way of acknowledging members/guests appreciation and time as I equally proffer my likes for images which I truly feel are of good quality but refrain from commenting on images which could be very easily mproved, (for the very negative reasons I outlined in my post) and hence I clearly I do not share your apparent concerns around this.

If you really want to take this matter to the mat then look no further than the stats for the oracle of delphi who seems to have capttured top legendry status on the forum with the lowest media contribution but highest level of one liners and devisive verbage.......a corresponding analysis, if you have taken the time to look at such analytics, is that on a membership duration, posts and media % contribution you will find there is no more than. 5 or 6 consistent contributors with balanced posts and media......as opposed to talkers only.

Again I will not hesitate to engage, support and commit to all on the forum but will not tolerate rank stupidity particularly when directed at me personally, and at which point I will disengage as I have done in the past.

So where is this rank stupidity and from who me?

 

[Deleted Member 5003]

Hi Gary,
have no desire to create unnecessary conjecture or division within the forum but those to which my comments apply will no doubt
recognise that.

As a frequent media contributor and poster to the forum yourself I am very sure you can recognise wherein such divisions or sticking
points lie.

If their is no appetite for change/improvement to the real issues within the forum then there is little point in our wasting our collective
time in trying to do so.

 

[Deleted Member 5045]

Hi Gary I am neither inexperienced, stupid or loathe to share my views and/or experience, but nevertheless I accept your views and you can make whatever you may of my comments and opinions I have no issue.

Yes my mail is provocative and it was intended to be so. If as proposed in your mail/question, you would like the forum to take on board valid comments, ideas and opinions as regards exploring if the forum is a learning organisation, then my mail is very relevent and there is little benefit in masking the real underlying views of the forum supporters.

You may raise concerns over my responses as regards focus stacking theory but if you look back to my earlier images I posted many focus stacked images with 0 response and I am not in the business of wasting my time..........your point relating to raising a response to every like with a personalised response is absolutely my way of acknowledging members/guests appreciation and time as I equally proffer my likes for images which I truly feel are of good quality but refrain from commenting on images which could be very easily mproved, (for the very negative reasons I outlined in my post) and hence I clearly I do not share your apparent concerns around this.

If you really want to take this matter to the mat then look no further than the stats for the oracle of delphi who seems to have capttured top legendry status on the forum with the lowest media contribution but highest level of one liners and devisive verbage.......a corresponding analysis, if you have taken the time to look at such analytics, is that on a membership duration, posts and media % contribution you will find there is no more than. 5 or 6 consistent contributors with balanced posts and media......as opposed to talkers only.

Again I will not hesitate to engage, support and commit to all on the forum but will not tolerate rank stupidity particularly when directed at me personally, and at which point I will disengage as I have done in the past.

I'm a bit confused over how you at the time cared enough to write three 'poems' on the matter but when asked to present some supporting material you all of a sudden didn't want to waste your time. The mental acrobatics you play in this joint is Olympic gold medal worthy...

 

[Deleted Member 5003]

Maybe mental gymnastics is your weak point, don't forget we have history in this area.....Read my post.... a number of focus stacked images were posted in the past..... go to media or gallery posts !

 

[Deleted Member 5045]

I'll spell it out for you then.

What you're saying now is that you will present an argument, then it's up to people to go find out your evidence. Do you understand that or are you going to weave your way around this too?

You literally use eloquent speech to trick people into thinking you are smart and know what you are talking about. You can't trick everyone mate.

My only weakness is my poor tolerance for stupidity...

 

[Deleted Member 5003]

I thought it was taking some time before the Oracle's troops intervened....

Make of it what you will. You have no idea of my education, history or depth of knowledge and experience and if you are having difficulty in understanding my "eloquent posts" do not expect me to to explain them to an ex motocross junkie..

Maybe your weakness is more about self stupidity than stupidty from others ?

 

[Deleted Member 5045]

I need my sleep otherwise I won't have the energy to annoy the likes of your odd self...

The thing is you don't actually even understand your eloquent posts. You get so caught up with sounding like a genius that most of the time you miss the point completely and ramble on about something absolutely irrelevant to the conversation.

There's two sayings that I think ring so true in many ways. Stupidity hides in complexity, and genius lies in simplicity. Funnily enough I was discussing that with a fellow engineer yesterday who is also a 'dumb' bike rider. If you were out living life in the outdoors, camping, getting covered in mud, building life and social skills etc like I did instead of being a skinny computer nerd, maybe you'd understand those too. There's some who fall for your garbage, but you don't fool me that's for sure.

 

[AlphaWorld]

As title just wondering if members feel they learn anything from the open chat posts, members shots, or remarks. ok so have a say do you think we learn from each other?

I find some of the threads reach a point where I don't want to read them any more (too much fighting) - I'd really like a button to say "Don't tell me about any more posts on this thread".

That said, there are threads that I enjoy reading - silly though it might sound, I enjoy reading the posts in the "what did you just buy?" thread - people seem to be rather positive about their recent acquisitions (I wonder why?).

Do I get anything from the open chat posts? Sometimes. I find it interesting to read about genres of photography in which I have no experience - Brownie's posts about photographing cars (I have taken photographs at a car show exactly once), for example. I may never dive into the genre, but I may learn about things that I can apply elsewhere.

 

[Deleted Member 5003]

I need my sleep otherwise I won't have the energy to annoy the likes of your odd self...

The thing is you don't actually even understand your eloquent posts. You get so caught up with sounding like a genius that most of the time you miss the point completely and ramble on about something absolutely irrelevant to the conversation.

There's two sayings that I think ring so true in many ways. Stupidity hides in complexity, and genius lies in simplicity. Funnily enough I was discussing that with a fellow engineer yesterday who is also a 'dumb' bike rider. If you were out living life in the outdoors, camping, getting covered in mud, building life and social skills etc like I did instead of being a skinny computer nerd, maybe you'd understand those too. There's some who fall for your garbage, but you don't fool me that's for sure.

Your diatribe about what I have or haven't done just speaks volumes, along with your junkie "engineer " friend as to your real world understanding...maybe you belong in the "outback" around a camp fire where intelligent in depth thought is not in high demand......or a prerequisite

It pays not to underestimate that which you do not understand ....

 

[Deleted Member 5045]

Oh I understand you mate, absolutely no mistakes here. It's not even funny that you would even believe that it takes intelligence to work you out. You're the type of person who goes to people's houses and they say they don't know why their dog is frightened of you because it's super friendly with everybody else.

Truly remarkable that a guy who speaks like he's on drugs and looks like he doesn't eat much can call a health and fitness fanatic a junky. Speaks volumes don't it..? You're delirious mate.

 

[Deleted Member 5045]

I apologise to anyone who ain't amused by this, but I can't waste this opportunity...

Not missing out on this much fun!

 

[Landshark99]

One comment on the off topic sections of a forum, I used to really enjoy the shall we say, lively discussions on whatever topic would be raised, but unfortunately they would many times delve into areas the moderator did not want people to go or dissolve into personal insults. Others in the forum would complain and then they all get shut down, or have major restriction on content. I can think of quite a few forums I have been on where this has happened.

 

[Deleted Member 5045]

One comment on the off topic sections of a forum, I used to really enjoy the shall we say, lively discussions on whatever topic would be raised, but unfortunately they would many times delve into areas the moderator did want people to go or dissolve into personal insults. Others in the forum would complain and then they all get shut down, or have major restriction on content. I can think of quite a few forums I have been on where this has happened.

I've never been for things like that. Unless it's basically death threats or comments about one's family or something I think it should be all guns blazing for whoever wishes to engage in it. I'd never report anyone for anything, I'd rather just sort it out myself if I have an issue with it. We're all different characters, we're going to disagree sometimes, that's life. It's all fun and games.

That's one thing I commend Timothy for, he pretty much allows a bit of a blue. That's good.

 

[Landshark99]

I've never been for things like that. Unless it's basically death threats or comments about one's family or something I think it should be all guns blazing for whoever wishes to engage in it. I'd never report anyone for anything, I'd rather just sort it out myself if I have an issue with it. We're all different characters, we're going to disagree sometimes, that's life. It's all fun and games.

That's one thing I commend Timothy for, he pretty much allows a bit of a blue. That's good.

I enjoy off topic sections, I just posted what happens many times to them.Nothing wrong about being a little blue here and there.
I do wonder though how many are turned off to discussions in specific topics that have absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand. If wants more participation beyond the few that engage in that, bringing, religion, politics,insults, etc into say a discussion on what lens one should one buy for BIF photography, seems a bit counter productive for inviting more participation in the forum.

 

[FowlersFreeTime]

Since this thread has already been derailed... In a previous lifetime, I was a moderator on a popular sport forum. We ran a tight ship and I squashed many threads which had the banter-gone-wrong smell I might have sniffed here a few times. The problem was we over-moderated and people left. It is evident that would happen here too. Our small group is growing thanks to a more hands-off approach, but I know Tim would step in if needed.
So I just roll my eyes and keep scrolling past the shenanigans and I still find beautiful images and thoughtful discussions on techniques to make my time here worthwhile.

 

[Deleted Member 5045]

I enjoy off topic sections, I just posted what happens many times to them.Nothing wrong about being a little blue here and there.
I do wonder though how many are turned off to discussions in specific topics that have absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand. If wants more participation beyond the few that engage in that, bringing, religion, politics,insults, etc into say a discussion on what lens one should one buy for BIF photography, seems a bit counter productive for inviting more participation in the forum.

Lol, in Australia we call having a fight 'having a blue'.

I do agree with what you're saying there Bob. It would obviously stop people from wanting to participate in the discussion that a post begun with. But on the other hand I guess people can always quote a previous post to continue the chat. Let the idiots play (often me), and let the adults respect the formalities.

I know myself and the other chief suspects do make an effort to not have so many outbursts. It may not seem like it sometimes but we do try hard to keep it relatively peaceful.