Rumors Rumor - Sony is working on a new larger capacity FZ battery

[iamdlewis]

From Alpha Rumors:
A source sent me this interesting info:

Sony is planning to update the FZ100 battery to an improved capacity but still the same size and compatibility. It’ll still be called NPFZ but the 100 number will change.
This battery would be retro compatible with most Sony Alpha cameras and give you two instant benefits:

• You have to carry less numbers of batteries
• You waste less time in swapping batteries during long shooting days

So let’s hope this rumor turns out to be true!

Video link: https://youtu.be/KUknERGRTm4?si=t3245iZbhA53tTk8

I hope this is true as longer battery life with the same size battery would be a nice plus.

 

[FowlersFreeTime]

I still haven't reached the limits of the FZ100 battery, but since I don't have a spare, I'd buy this new one when it comes out and keep the original as a spare. More battery life is always appreciated.

 

[Paul stuart]

This is great news if it works with existing cameras,

 

[AlphaWorld]

It seems highly unlikely. Sony already fits high quality cells into their batteries. There isn't room for more or larger cells in that battery, and the claim is that it will be the same size and shape on the outside.

The only way you get more capacity from a battery using the same battery chemistry is by using more of the chemistry - you make the battery bigger.

You might ponder the possibility of using cells of a different shape, but pick up your FX100 battery, and imagine the two cylindrical cells inside it. The back of the battery is curved around those cylinders, and the front has those heavily indented edges - there is very little room to fill with more battery.

Could they be switching to a different battery chemistry? Possible, but also unlikely. Chances are that a new battery chemistry would require different circuitry for charging and display of remaining capacity - that's not a drop-in replacement for the existing battery.

This sounds very much like someone's wishful thinking, not something real. The kind of thing that pops up between real rumours

 

[iamdlewis]

It seems highly unlikely. Sony already fits high quality cells into their batteries. There isn't room for more or larger cells in that battery, and the claim is that it will be the same size and shape on the outside.

The only way you get more capacity from a battery using the same battery chemistry is by using more of the chemistry - you make the battery bigger.

You might ponder the possibility of using cells of a different shape, but pick up your FX100 battery, and imagine the two cylindrical cells inside it. The back of the battery is curved around those cylinders, and the front has those heavily indented edges - there is very little room to fill with more battery.

Could they be switching to a different battery chemistry? Possible, but also unlikely. Chances are that a new battery chemistry would require different circuitry for charging and display of remaining capacity - that's not a drop-in replacement for the existing battery.

This sounds very much like someone's wishful thinking, not something real. The kind of thing that pops up between real rumours

That isn't true. Alkaline batteries have increased in available power yet battery sizes have remained constant over the many decades they've been around. Lithium-Ion batteries have been averaging 7-8% density increase per year improvement over the last decade. So it isn't difficult to believe that Sony can create a battery the same size as the FX100 with more available power given that the FX100 is over 6 years old.

Even if we assume that they use a different type of battery the connection port can still be the same, you can see this with AA/AAA batteries in that you can get Alkaline or Lithium-Ion and they will both power any device that uses AA/AAA battery sizes. The % charge of the battery is a simple bit of coding.

 

[AlphaWorld]

That isn't true. Alkaline batteries have increased in available power yet battery sizes have remained constant over the many decades they've been around. Lithium-Ion batteries have been averaging 7-8% density increase per year improvement over the last decade. So it isn't difficult to believe that Sony can create a battery the same size as the FX100 with more available power given that the FX100 is over 6 years old.

Even if we assume that they use a different type of battery the connection port can still be the same, you can see this with AA/AAA batteries in that you can get Alkaline or Lithium-Ion and they will both power any device that uses AA/AAA battery sizes. The % charge of the battery is a simple bit of coding.

I honestly do not understand how they can make an AA Lithium rechargeable battery (I know they exist - I've seen them) - how do they get a 1.5V output from a chemistry with a 3.6V cell? I imagine devices taking AA batteries have to be designed to accept a variety of voltages given that NiMH cells run at 1.3V and alkaline cells at about 1.5V.

I can easily believe that the capacity of large Lithium batteries is steadily increasing - they having been making advances in the construction of the batteries (particularly in the electrodes) driven (pun intended) by the EV industry - I think the lithium iron phosporus battery is gaining favour for its longer life and cheaper price, at the cost of lower energy density.

But are those advances as applicable in a battery the size of the FZ100? I had the impression (which may be wrong) that the smaller batteries weren't seeing these advances?

I'd be happy to be wrong - an FZ100 with an increased capacity could be useful, although I must say that I rarely have an issue with it, unlike the FW50 batteries we saw in the earlier models (like the A7RII and A7R) - they were seriously lacking in capacity (the price of them being smaller).

 

[iamdlewis]

But are those advances as applicable in a battery the size of the FZ100? I had the impression (which may be wrong) that the smaller batteries weren't seeing these advances?

You haven't seen them because there isn't the demand or cost incentive to change many of the battery types. Most things that use batteries are not being sold with a key factor being battery life. Portable speakers, headphones, mice, toothbrushes, handheld vacuums are all devices that the industry has sort of come up with an acceptable battery life that the public is ok with and the newer versions of those devices are not using more power so no real need to change battery capabilities. Devices like phones, tablets, cars are all sold partially on how much battery life the device has and in the case of phones and tablets the devices have all been using more power, getting smaller but also getting more battery life. So when you have acceptable battery life and no market driving need to change there is no incentive to spend the money to overhaul production lines.

FZ100 I am sure is changing because the A1 has more power requirements than the A7iii and the A1ii will have even more. If Sony can keep the same size battery but increase capacity of it so that newer generation of cameras get the same life as older cameras ones did it will be seen as a plus. As a bonus they get the good news of saying that with the new batteries the older models will get more life.

 

[AlphaWorld]

It just occurred to me that the Lithium Iron Phosphate battery tech would be inapplicable in this case because you'd get less power in the same volume. If the objective is to fit more power into the same space, it's going to have to be a minor tweak to the existing designs.

I guess they might squeeze a little more capacity out - Nikon and Canon have done this in the past, but they were starting from earlier designs - the FZ100 came out after Lithium ion batteries were well established.

The Canon battery most comparable to the FZ100 is the LP-E6, arriving in the 5D mark II in late 2008. Canon has released at least two updated versions: the LP-E6N and LP-E6NH. According to one article I found the LP-EP6N has 3.5% more capacity than the LP-E6, and the LP-E6NH had 14% more capacity than the LP-E6N. That's what I call "squeezing a little more capacity out". The LP-E6NH has a capacity of 2130mAh. The LP-E6 was 1800mAh; I haven't found a good spec on the LP-E6N. So that's an increase of around 18.5% from first to last. (the original 5D used the venerable BP-511A, with a capacity of 1300mAh, or thereabouts).

Nikon's EN-EL15 battery has gone through more iterations - the original EN-EL15 came out in 2011 with a capacity of 1900mAh, with a revision in 2013, and then the EN-EL15a in 2015 (still 1900mAh). Current version is the EN-EL15c, coming out in 2020, with a capacity of 2280mAh (an increase of 20%).

By contrast, the FZ100 arrived in the A9 in 2017 - not quite a decade later than the LP-E6, but a long time in battery tech. It has a capacity of 2280mAh. I would be surprised if there's a lot of room to squeeze out much capacity, especially considering that the FZ100 has the same capacity at the latest Nikon iteration, and more than the latest Canon.

When people talk of a dramatic increase in battery capacity I think they are expecting 100% more, or at least 50% more, not 20%. I'll take what I can get, but I won't rush out to replace all my batteries to get 10% or 20% more power in each.

Honestly, I'm not suffering with the current life of the charge in an FZ100, even on an A1 or an A9 III. I shoot long bursts on both cameras, and come home with thousands of images, and I rarely have to change batteries.

 

[iamdlewis]

When people talk of a dramatic increase in battery capacity I think they are expecting 100% more, or at least 50% more, not 20%. I'll take what I can get, but I won't rush out to replace all my batteries to get 10% or 20% more power in each.

Well if the are able to keep up with the industry average of 7% capacity increase a year they should be able to deliver a 60% increase. I am also rarely out long enough to use 1 battery and will not replace my current ones but as the older ones fade I would replace them with the better battery.

 

[AlphaWorld]

Well if the are able to keep up with the industry average of 7% capacity increase a year they should be able to deliver a 60% increase. I am also rarely out long enough to use 1 battery and will not replace my current ones but as the older ones fade I would replace them with the better battery.

Where are you getting this 7% average? Is it for batteries like the FZ100, or is it for batteries in phones and cars? Phone batteries are custom to each phone these days, and not user removable - it has been a long time since phones had the option to switch batteries when the phone ran out of juice (I think the last one I had was a Nokia).

If you look at the Canon and Nikon histories I mentioned, the increases are nothing like 7% compound.