Sony A9ii versus A7rv

[lodbrok]

I am very tempted to trade in my A9ii for the A7rv. I'm mostly crop in and also want the birdeye focus! Also the manual overide when you touch the focusring.. BUT... I shoot BIF alot and read a lot that A7riv users is struggling with BIF.. Why is that? If you nail a bird in flight with 24 megapixel why can't you nail it likewize with 61mp? Anybody inhere have some opinion around this? Mark Smith says something simular with 61mp. Will I regret the switch since I love to shoot BIF? I will use it with my 200-600mm.

 

[Deleted Member 5003]

Hi lodbrok.
The ARiv has a longstanding poorer auto focus than the A9ii but the Arv I understand has a much improved auto focus system and does not suffer from the same underperformance at least compared to the A9ii.... I believe the ARiv also has a diffrent sensor......

On the matter of high resolution such sensors are not very forgiving and if you have any shooting set up errors it will pick them up and not produce the high quality image you are expecting.... Bottom line you need good shooting form to get the best out of a high resolution camera.

 

[spudhead]

I am very tempted to trade in my A9ii for the A7rv. I'm mostly crop in and also want the birdeye focus! Also the manual overide when you touch the focusring.. BUT... I shoot BIF alot and read a lot that A7riv users is struggling with BIF.. Why is that? If you nail a bird in flight with 24 megapixel why can't you nail it likewize with 61mp? Anybody inhere have some opinion around this? Mark Smith says something simular with 61mp. Will I regret the switch since I love to shoot BIF? I will use it with my 200-600mm.

Ok I have the a9 and believe the focus to be spot on for birds in flight, I do not understand the eye focus people crave, if the head is in focus the eye will be, the a9 sensor is better I believe than the a7rv, I crop often hard and think they look fine, 3.5 mb file below

• ILCE-9
• Sony FE 200–600mm F5.6–6.3 G OSS (SEL200600G)
• 600.0 mm
• ƒ/6.3
• 1/2500 sec
• ISO 2000

 

[lodbrok]

Hi lodbrok.
The ARiv has a longstanding poorer auto focus than the A9ii but the Arv I understand has a much improved auto focus system and does not suffer from the same underperformance at least compared to the A9ii.... I believe the ARiv also has a diffrent sensor......

On the matter of high resolution such sensors are not very forgiving and if you have any shooting set up errors it will pick them up and not produce the high quality image you are expecting.... Bottom line you need good shooting form to get the best out of a high resolution camera.

Hi I think from reviews they say its the same sensor but the auto-focus system is superior to the 7riv. And like you say if you do everything correct you will nail the perfect flight-shot. And if not you can set down the megapixel-size aprox. to the A9ii size. And crank it up again on static birds.

 

[lodbrok]

The A9 has a stacked sensor that reads out like a speed demon, making it very suitable for bursts. If you're nailing BIF with single shots, no problem. If you're shooting a burst and picking a good one from a set, the A9 is the better choice.

However, there are all types of people using both cameras for all types of photography. It's what you get used to.

Yeah I like to shoot bursts and pick the ones I like. If I could I would have them both.. I have never hit the buffer on the A9ii.
My last fieldtrip shooting Cormorants in flight was a flop due to the light and probarly atmosfheric disturbance maybee. All the shots where mushy/non-keepers. And then 3-4 weeks with rain and poor light.. I bought the A9ii pre-owned and maybee the previous owner had dropped it bad and after that he/she noticed the camera has a failure of some kind..

 

[spudhead]

Yeah I like to shoot bursts and pick the ones I like. If I could I would have them both.. I have never hit the buffer on the A9ii.
My last fieldtrip shooting Cormorants in flight was a flop due to the light and probarly atmosfheric disturbance maybee. All the shots where mushy/non-keepers. And then 3-4 weeks with rain and poor light.. I bought the A9ii pre-owned and maybee the previous owner had dropped it bad and after that he/she noticed the camera has a failure of some kind..

It might just be setup issues, have you had any shots you are happy with? tell us about your settings many on here can help if you ask

 

[Deleted Member 5045]

I do not understand the eye focus people crave, if the head is in focus the eye will be

Couldn't agree more!

 

[lodbrok]

Ok I have the a9 and believe the focus to be spot on for birds in flight, I do not understand the eye focus people crave, if the head is in focus the eye will be, the a9 sensor is better I believe than the a7rv, I crop often hard and think they look fine, 3.5 mb file belowView attachment 30456

Wow its supersharp and beautyful! Is that with the 600mm F4? or the 200-600mm? Yeah we both have the same stacked sensor without blackouts too. The A7rv have blackouts in bursts. I will wait till more reviews coming from the non-desktop sitting reviewers/the real wildlife shooters with photo's taken of BIF. I like the idea of altering the megapixels in A7rv. I think there was 3-4 settings down too 26 something.

 

[lodbrok]

It might just be setup issues, have you had any shots you are happy with? tell us about your settings many on here can help if you ask

• ILCE-9M2
• FE 200-600mm F5.6-6.3 G OSS
• 600.0 mm
• ƒ/6.3
• 1/1250 sec
• ISO 500

• ILCE-9M2
• FE 200-600mm F5.6-6.3 G OSS
• 600.0 mm
• ƒ/6.3
• 1/1250 sec
• ISO 500

• ILCE-9M2
• FE 200-600mm F5.6-6.3 G OSS
• 600.0 mm
• ƒ/6.3
• 1/1250 sec
• ISO 200

 

[lodbrok]

View attachment 30460View attachment 30461View attachment 30462

Quit happy with this burst. My settings are plain zone on AF button and medium spot with tracking on the AEL button. Also have my senterbutton setup with spot-metering 1/800sek small spot focus and iso and aperatur as the camera is having. Also have my C2 button to toggle between aperatur/exposure-comp. Then I have 1 finger on the shutter and one on the front-dial. C1 toggles between manual and auto-focus.

 

[spudhead]

Quit happy with this burst. My settings are plain zone on AF button and medium spot with tracking on the AEL button. Also have my senterbutton setup with spot-metering 1/800sek small spot focus and iso and aperatur as the camera is having. Also have my C2 button to toggle between aperatur/exposure-comp. Then I have 1 finger on the shutter and one on the front-dial. C1 toggles between manual and auto-focus.

I only shoot in manual in general, auto iso capped between 6400-12800, I think your shutter speed is quite a bit too low another reason to shoot in manual,

Wow its supersharp and beautyful! Is that with the 600mm F4? or the 200-600mm? Yeah we both have the same stacked sensor without blackouts too. The A7rv have blackouts in bursts. I will wait till more reviews coming from the non-desktop sitting reviewers/the real wildlife shooters with photo's taken of BIF. I like the idea of altering the megapixels in A7rv. I think there was 3-4 settings down too 26 something.

that is the 200-600 a great lens for the money I shot 300 frames and 200 plus are keepers

 

[Deleted Member 5003]

I am very tempted to trade in my A9ii for the A7rv. I'm mostly crop in and also want the birdeye focus! Also the manual overide when you touch the focusring.. BUT... I shoot BIF alot and read a lot that A7riv users is struggling with BIF.. Why is that? If you nail a bird in flight with 24 megapixel why can't you nail it likewize with 61mp? Anybody inhere have some opinion around this? Mark Smith says something simular with 61mp. Will I regret the switch since I love to shoot BIF? I will use it with my 200-600mm.

Hi Lodbrok,
just to reacap and clarify, if your priority shooting genre is BIF, as you indicate, do not go near to the A7Riv in my opinion. I have used the A9ii and A7Riv and latterly the A1, which I use now, and the AR7iv is a very poor relation to both and will lead to many frustrating BIF sessions for you. For you info I sold the A7Riv within 6 months of buying the A9ii.....the focus improved AR7v may well satisfy your requirement however, but, as i have no experience with it can't really comment.

Shooters who do not focus on fast BIF and action will likely be more than happy with the A7Riv

 

[lodbrok]

Hi Lodbrok,
just to reacap and clarify, if your priority shooting genre is BIF, as you indicate, do not go near to the A7Riv in my opinion. I have used the A9ii and A7Riv and latterly the A1, which I use now, and the AR7iv is a very poor relation to both and will lead to many frustrating BIF sessions for you. For you info I sold the A7Riv within 6 months of buying the A9ii.....the focus improved AR7v may well satisfy your requirement however, but, as i have no experience with it can't really comment.

Shooters who do not focus on fast BIF and action will likely be more than happy with the A7Riv

Thanks for your advice Ray! I will hold on till spring with much better light-conditions and have some fieldtrips to the cormorants again. And see the results in perfect light.

• ILCE-7M3
• FE 200-600mm F5.6-6.3 G OSS + 1.4X Teleconverter
• 840.0 mm
• ƒ/9
• 1/1600 sec
• ISO 1250

 

[lodbrok]

24 megapixel is sometimes enough.. Here is the original 'crop' shot with this cormorant.

• ILCE-7M3
• FE 200-600mm F5.6-6.3 G OSS + 1.4X Teleconverter
• 840.0 mm
• ƒ/9
• 1/1600 sec
• ISO 1250

 

[Deleted Member 5003]

Hi telfan,
do not be misled by low opinions of the value of bird eye focus.

The plane of focus is also very important along with the depth of field when shooting birds in flight

If you shoot a bird from below flying overhead, or a bird with spread wings in front of you it is likely you will have full focus across the resulting image
As the combination of a near flat plane of focus along with a deep dof....if the bird is distant from you will support this.

In shooting birds flying horizontally sideways in panning mode or flying directly toward you however, unless you have skill sets to enable you to focus on the head/eye with spot et al, birdeye focus will help to avoid focus on a wing tip or beak. Your cormorant shots above seem to be suffering from this to a degree.

Bottom line is except for images with a flat plane of focus and deep dof,efficient bird eye focus such as the A9ii, A1 and maybe A7Rv will focus on the eye of the biRds you shoot and ignore the Potential wingtips/beak focus with soft body.......the standard camera focus algorithm which is set to focus on the composition most frontward or center element whilst bird eye focus will override this if an eye is detected.

Hope this further claries the matter of BIF focusing.

 

[lodbrok]

Hi telfan,
do not be misled by low opinions of the value of bird eye focus.

The plane of focus is also very important along with the depth of field when shooting birds in flight

If you shoot a bird from below flying overhead, or a bird with spread wings in front of you it is likely you will have full focus across the resulting image
As the combination of a near flat plane of focus along with a deep dof....if the bird is distant from you will support this.

In shooting birds flying horizontally sideways in panning mode or flying directly toward you however, unless you have skill sets to enable you to focus on the head/eye with spot et al, birdeye focus will help to avoid focus on a wing tip or beak. Your cormorant shots above seem to be suffering from this to a degree.

Bottom line is except for images with a flat plane of focus and deep dof,efficient bird eye focus such as the A9ii, A1 and maybe A7Rv will focus on the eye of the biRds you shoot and ignore the Potential wingtips/beak focus with soft body.......the standard camera focus algorithm which is set to focus on the composition most frontward or center element whilst bird eye focus will override this if an eye is detected.

Hope this further claries the matter of BIF focusing.

Its very difficult achiving focus on eye/head when the cormorant flies by. Still learning do.. A9ii does not have bird-eye focus. Hope sony will fix that in a firmware update.
A friend of mine nailed an eagle close up with the help of remotecontrol and the camera was set aprox. 1,5meter from the roadkill. He activated focus on shutter and he used birdeye-focus! You know when you halfpress the remote you activate the focus. And silent shooting.

I know I should have used F11 something and risked the higher iso to achive sharper wingtips. Will experiment further on when spring comes with better light!

 

[lodbrok]

Unlikely with the A9M3 looming. I expect it to have the most advanced focusing in Sonyland, the same as the A7RV, but with the speed of the A9. I don't see Sony improving the 9M2 though, it wouldn't make financial sense.

I think you have a point there... Most likely and hopefully the A9iii will have bird-eye focus and maybee a bit more pixel too. Maybee its best to wait that out and exchange the 9ii with the 9iii! After it have been proper reviewed.

 

[lodbrok]

I've been hoping against all rational thought that they'll take a 33MP sensor like the A7IV, stack it, do whatever voodoo they need to do, make it as fast as the current 9, and drop in the new AF from the RV.

Shut up and take my money!

Yes! And ad the birdeye-focus too. And maybee sony skip those cars and train reconition sh*t. A chinese reviewer talk about that in a funny way where he said: Maybee they add a fire-hydrant in the next firmware update.

 

[Uncle Kevriano]

I agree with Gary about eye focus, I've said it before myself, but Ray is right about plane of focus of course. I do fine with the Riv, after a lot of practice, but would like the newer focus systems because they are faster for sure. I tend to shoot a larger aperture for any BIF anyway, at least 7.1, but 8 if I have the light, because I hate out of focus wing tips etc.
Tim has it right about the A9 III, I want the same, but unfortunately it will also be bloody expensive...

 

[lodbrok]

Uh, well...no. DO NOT skip any of that. Some of us spend time on those subjects.

DSC03583 by Shotglass Photo, on Flickr

DSC03119 by Shotglass Photo, on Flickr

Uh, well...no. DO NOT skip any of that. Some of us spend time on those subjects.

DSC03583 by Shotglass Photo, on Flickr

DSC03119 by Shotglass Photo, on Flickr

Okey seeing these 2 shots I can accept the car-reconiction I guees.

 

[lodbrok]

I agree with Gary about eye focus, I've said it before myself, but Ray is right about plane of focus of course. I do fine with the Riv, after a lot of practice, but would like the newer focus systems because they are faster for sure. I tend to shoot a larger aperture for any BIF anyway, at least 7.1, but 8 if I have the light, because I hate out of focus wing tips etc.
Tim has it right about the A9 III, I want the same, but unfortunately it will also be bloody expensive...

I hate out of focus wingtips too. But then again it is the everlasting fight against too high iso due to details in feathers. Its true that if you get the head in focus then the eye also will be. But after a friend of me had a session on his eagle hide where he set up the camera with remote-controll ~ placed the camera with a 28mm lense ca. 1,5 - 2 meter from the roadkill ~ set the shutter to release and activated bird-eye focus he nailed most of the shots. You know when you half-press the remote you activate the focus. Thats one of the reasons I want the bird-eye focus.

 

[spudhead]

I hate out of focus wingtips too. But then again it is the everlasting fight against too high iso due to details in feathers. Its true that if you get the head in focus then the eye also will be. But after a friend of me had a session on his eagle hide where he set up the camera with remote-controll ~ placed the camera with a 28mm lense ca. 1,5 - 2 meter from the roadkill ~ set the shutter to release and activated bird-eye focus he nailed most of the shots. You know when you half-press the remote you activate the focus. Thats one of the reasons I want the bird-eye focus.

You have the right tool for the job the a9ii is more than capable of perfect focus on the eye or anything else you need to give time to learn it, below 2 images from a9 mk1 from a few days ago second one only 678kb in size eye focused

• ILCE-9
• Sony FE 200–600mm F5.6–6.3 G OSS (SEL200600G)
• 600.0 mm
• ƒ/6.3
• 1/2500 sec
• ISO 640

• ILCE-9
• Sony FE 200–600mm F5.6–6.3 G OSS (SEL200600G)
• 600.0 mm
• ƒ/6.3
• 1/2500 sec
• ISO 640

 

[lodbrok]

You have the right tool for the job the a9ii is more than capable of perfect focus on the eye or anything else you need to give time to learn it, below 2 images from a9 mk1 from a few days ago second one only 678kb in size eye focused View attachment 30668View attachment 30669

Yes the A9ii has it all. If I can afford it I might end up with both - the A9ii and A7rv. I often had ideas when I sit on post camuflaged about a second camera with remote controll. And thats where bird eye focus can be the ultimat tool.

 

[Uncle Kevriano]

I hate out of focus wingtips too. But then again it is the everlasting fight against too high iso due to details in feathers. Its true that if you get the head in focus then the eye also will be. But after a friend of me had a session on his eagle hide where he set up the camera with remote-controll ~ placed the camera with a 28mm lense ca. 1,5 - 2 meter from the roadkill ~ set the shutter to release and activated bird-eye focus he nailed most of the shots. You know when you half-press the remote you activate the focus. Thats one of the reasons I want the bird-eye focus.

Re the half press. I never use it, back button focus all the way, with continuous AF, so there's no activation as such, it's just on. Obviously that's different in the scenario you use though, and that's just using the racking to good effect.

 

[lodbrok]

Re the half press. I never use it, back button focus all the way, with continuous AF, so there's no activation as such, it's just on. Obviously that's different in the scenario you use though, and that's just using the racking to good effect.

Like you said it is for controlling a camera with remote. I also use backbutton-focus.

 

[Deleted Member 5003]

Since the release of the A1 i have been converted from using previous back button focussing over shutter button focussing
to a situation wherein Wide and Zone area focussing is available to again use the shutter button half way press.

When shooting in these modes and to get good results the subjects must be front and/or center to get focus(excepting when the eye focus overides in the case of BIF) and so it made a lot of sense to me to use the AEL and/or AF-ON as triggers for other shooting modes, as the shutter button half depressed focussing works fine for the Wide and Zone area modes.

 

[lodbrok]

Since the release of the A1 i have been converted from using previous back button focussing over shutter button focussing
to a situation wherein Wide and Zone area focussing is available to again use the shutter button half way press.

When shooting in these modes and to get good results the subjects must be front and/or center to get focus(excepting when the eye focus overides in the case of BIF) and so it made a lot of sense to me to use the AEL and/or AF-ON as triggers for other shooting modes, as the shutter button half depressed focussing works fine for the Wide and Zone area modes.

Sometimes when you have to act fast and wearing gloves it can be more suitable using AF W/shutter. But I have been using BBF for years now and is very comfortable with 3 different focuses set to AF - AEL and the senterbutton.
But I like to know what you have assigned to the AF and AEL?

 

[AlphaWorld]

Bear in mind that the A9II has the older, much slower, processor. It probably doesn’t have the processing power to do bird-eye-af at 20fps, even if Sony wanted to add the functionality in firmware.

On the other hand, the A9III will have the new processor, probably the extra “AI” chip, higher speed sensor, higher frame rate, and you may need to tie a brick to it to stop it taking off

I have managed to capture images which focused on a wing tip, leaving the head (and eye) less sharp, and that’s using an A1. I worked out what happened - the wingtip was over the head when the auto focus happened, but when it took the shot the head was uncovered and just a bit blurry. My fault, I guess, for shooting with the aperture wide open to get a high shutter speed. Admittedly, this was one shot in a burst of 12, and the others were good.

 

[lodbrok]

Bear in mind that the A9II has the older, much slower, processor. It probably doesn’t have the processing power to do bird-eye-af at 20fps, even if Sony wanted to add the functionality in firmware.

On the other hand, the A9III will have the new processor, probably the extra “AI” chip, higher speed sensor, higher frame rate, and you may need to tie a brick to it to stop it taking off

I have managed to capture images which focused on a wing tip, leaving the head (and eye) less sharp, and that’s using an A1. I worked out what happened - the wingtip was over the head when the auto focus happened, but when it took the shot the head was uncovered and just a bit blurry. My fault, I guess, for shooting with the aperture wide open to get a high shutter speed. Admittedly, this was one shot in a burst of 12, and the others were good.

I was thinkin like that too, that the A9ii probarly not have the power to process bird-eye. I will wait for the release of the 9iii and then trade in my 9ii. Bird-eye can be a game-changer aspecialy with remote-controlled shooting. Yust set it up with wide focus/bird-eye and a wide-angle lense on a gorillapod. And then I can shoot with the 200-600mm ca 20-30 meters away.

 

[Uncle Kevriano]

I was thinkin like that too, that the A9ii probarly not have the power to process bird-eye. I will wait for the release of the 9iii and then trade in my 9ii. Bird-eye can be a game-changer aspecialy with remote-controlled shooting. Yust set it up with wide focus/bird-eye and a wide-angle lense on a gorillapod. And then I can shoot with the 200-600mm ca 20-30 meters away.

That's cheating