Sony A1 A1 Bird Autofocus not Focusing on Eyes

[bhphotography]

So after shooting many pictures of birds daily in my backyard, I've found that some birds' eyes just do not focus correctly with bird AF--male House Sparrows in particular are always front-focused. See the example.

Northern Cardinals, chickadees, dark-eyed juncos, american robins, are perfectly focused on the eye. I guess Sony needs to update their AI a bit.

I'm using firmware 1.2, 200-600mm+2XTC

Anyone else experience anything like this with other bird-species?

• ILCE-1
• FE 200-600mm F5.6-6.3 G OSS + 2X Teleconverter
• 1,200.0 mm
• ƒ/13
• 1/125 sec
• ISO 640

• ILCE-1
• FE 200-600mm F5.6-6.3 G OSS + 2X Teleconverter
• 1,200.0 mm
• ƒ/13
• 1/125 sec
• ISO 640

• ILCE-1
• FE 200-600mm F5.6-6.3 G OSS + 2X Teleconverter
• 1,200.0 mm
• ƒ/13
• 1/125 sec
• ISO 1000

 

[Uncle Kevriano]

I'd say the issue is with the species, because both of those birds have small, black eyes, surround by black or dark feathers. This makes it hard for the camera to find the eye accurately.

 

[bhphotography]

Yep, I agree -- but if the bird AF isn't actually able to track it correctly, it shouldn't show that it's focused at all, in my opinion. It's like a false positive, I guess.

 

[AlphaWorld]

Yep, I agree -- but if the bird AF isn't actually able to track it correctly, it shouldn't show that it's focused at all, in my opinion. It's like a false positive, I guess.

Sadly, it can be even more difficult to write eye AF algorithms that know they have failed, when you are trying to deal with a wide variety of species.

It is easier with human eye AF, because humans are one species, and our eyes stand out. That’s how come human eye AF can realise that eyes are not visible, and switch to trying to identify where to focus in some other way.

I am more surprised that bird eye AF works then when it doesn’t

 

[Xeropaga81]

What you show us here is "complaints" on a very high level. I have two A1's, and a A7SIII in use and sometimes the same happens to me as well. We just have to learn and understand, that the bird eye AF is only a supporting "tool", it's not a 100% solution for every single bird species on this planet. Even if they look similar, results can vary by quite a bit. Just don't fully rely on it, we have to always be ready to set our focus point manually if necessary ....

Cheers
Marco

 

[Jeff A]

FWIW, I made numerous Bird Eye AF shots last week with my A7IV. I don't think any were at a great distance but when I worked, it worked well. The A7IV may have some more recent tech than the A1. I'm just guessing. If I saw a bird at a moderate or greater distance, I would not expect it to work. Keep in mind, you are not listening to the voice of experience here.

 

[Slug]

I find bird focus on A1 for me is very hit and miss. (More miss than hit).
Reading past posts about A1 I'm getting the feeling that it's a very expensive camera with a lot of auto features that most of us have problems getting to work well. That being the case, all the best results are coming from operators using the camera in full manual mode. (Including manual focus over-ride). That seems to defeat the purpose of having an A1.
Bit like having a dog and barking yourself!

 

[liggy]

1,200 mm, 1/125th and a challenging subject to boot? You’re asking a lot.
50mp is unforgiving and 1/125 is way too slow imo at 1,200mm unless you’re shooting something completely stationary.

 

[Uncle Kevriano]

I find bird focus on A1 for me is very hit and miss. (More miss than hit).
Reading past posts about A1 I'm getting the feeling that it's a very expensive camera with a lot of auto features that most of us have problems getting to work well. That being the case, all the best results are coming from operators using the camera in full manual mode. (Including manual focus over-ride). That seems to defeat the purpose of having an A1.
Bit like having a dog and barking yourself!

This is exactly why I'm not a fan of these types of systems. Yes the AF is amazing, and I think people should just rely on that and traditional shooting skills and stop trying to rely on technology to do it for them. I don't ever use animal eye on the RIV, and have it on human all of the time, as it gives me access to the tracking options for BIF, which animal doesn't. It works very well.

 

[bhphotography]

1,200 mm, 1/125th and a challenging subject to boot? You’re asking a lot.
50mp is unforgiving and 1/125 is way too slow imo at 1,200mm unless you’re shooting something completely stationary.

Ya I would agree for the most part, but other parts of the shot are actually in focus, so it's not like the whole thing is blurred from being too slow of a shutter at that focal length.

I think the collective lesson from everyone's experience is that bird AF is not entirely reliable. I guess I'll have to try shooting both bird AF, then good old-fashioned spot AF if I have time. Too bad you can't disable eye priority in a custom shoot set.

 

[liggy]

Ya I would agree for the most part, but other parts of the shot are actually in focus, so it's not like the whole thing is blurred from being too slow of a shutter at that focal length.

I think the collective lesson from everyone's experience is that bird AF is not entirely reliable. I guess I'll have to try shooting both bird AF, then good old-fashioned spot AF if I have time. Too bad you can't disable eye priority in a custom shoot set.

I wouldn’t claim it is 100% reliable in all cases either. Agree with you there.
To be honest I rarely use the 1.4tx on the 200-600 with the A1 so I can imagine the 2.0 gives you even more potential for IQ degradation.

I realize it’s all personal choice but I get better results with birds pushing the ISO higher and speeding up SS.

Even without specifically engaging bird eye af the tracking usually does a good job of getting it right.

 

[Slug]

Would you mind telling what tracking mode/s you use and get best results from.

I wouldn’t claim it is 100% reliable in all cases either. Agree with you there.
To be honest I rarely use the 1.4tx on the 200-600 with the A1 so I can imagine the 2.0 gives you even more potential for IQ degradation.

I realize it’s all personal choice but I get better results with birds pushing the ISO higher and speeding up SS.

Even without specifically engaging bird eye af the tracking usually does a good job of getting it right.

 

[Ziggy]

With BIF under the A1 I often see focus shifting between multiple boxes, tracking box and eye tracking box. When I really want it to pay its way is in preferring the eye or head to the wingtip in a flyby, and it usually does.
So that's not 100% reliable but that's not a reasonable expectation.

 

[liggy]

Would you mind telling what tracking mode/s you use and get best results from.

Sorry - missed this.

I am probably not doing it right but it works for me. H+, Tracking Spot S.
Not so concerned about bird eye per se but have eye selection on the C3 button and different tracking modes set to C2 if needed. I don’t use back button focus. If the camera doesn’t grab the bird right away I just release the shutter and try and get the bird in the box.

Was out yesterday for a walk and to my surprise was able to get some tree swallows. They are only about 5” and fly like they have alien technology

Not the best shots but a pleasant surprise regardless.

 

[Ziggy]

For BIF I have Small, Medium and Zone on a custom button toggle, and non-tracking AF on AE-L with tracking on AF-On. Then I get a !ock in non-tracking and switch to tracking. This helps avoid a lock on the background or another bird.

BEAF helps get a lock on the face rather than the belly or wingtip.

 

[Slug]

Sorry - missed this.

I am probably not doing it right but it works for me. H+, Tracking Spot S.
Not so concerned about bird eye per se but have eye selection on the C3 button and different tracking modes set to C2 if needed. I don’t use back button focus. If the camera doesn’t grab the bird right away I just release the shutter and try and get the bird in the box.

Was out yesterday for a walk and to my surprise was able to get some tree swallows. They are only about 5” and fly like they have alien technology

Not the best shots but a pleasant surprise regardless.

Thanks similar to what I do but struggle to get consistency. I usually get one or two usable shots out of a burst but I'm still trying different combinations in order to get a better percentage of keepers.

 

[Slug]

For BIF I have Small, Medium and Zone on a custom button toggle, and non-tracking AF on AE-L with tracking on AF-On. Then I get a !ock in non-tracking and switch to tracking. This helps avoid a lock on the background or another bird.

BEAF helps get a lock on the face rather than the belly or wingtip.

How are you metering?

 

[liggy]

Thanks similar to what I do but struggle to get consistency. I usually get one or two usable shots out of a burst but I'm still trying different combinations in order to get a better percentage of keepers.

Hmmm,.. keeping the tracking “stickiness” set to 3 usually results in the camera grabbing and then staying on the bird for me. Topaz DeNoise works well enough that I don’t mind running higher iso to keep the shutter speed high.

 

[Ziggy]

How are you metering?

Linked to focus point.

 

[Ziggy]

Thanks similar to what I do but struggle to get consistency. I usually get one or two usable shots out of a burst but I'm still trying different combinations in order to get a better percentage of keepers.

All with BEAF being signalled with the small box?

 

[Slug]

All with BEAF being signalled with the small box?

 

[Slug]

Pardon my ignorance but I don't know what BEAF stands for.
I normally select continuous focus, expand spot or small spot, If a bird in flight with sky I use zone with full screen average for metering.

 

[Ziggy]

Bird eye AF.

 

[Slug]

Bird eye AF.

Thanks yes I eventually worked it out but acronyms give me the shits.