Ok so here is your chance to have a say, get it out what is Sony doing right or wrong, kit, firmware, service what ever you want

[iamdlewis]

I dont see the issue trust me it not an issue on the a9 we are not talking about a camera that hits the buffer or blacks out

It isn't about hitting a buffer it is about knowing exactly what the settings are. I tend to use my A7Riv for landscape stuff but from time to time I grab my A1 because the A7Riv is setup for something. I use the A1 for some sunset stuff return it to the bag and then set out early the next day for some bird stuff. Out in the field I switch from M to 1 as I see my first bird press the shutter button and nothing. 5 seconds later I have an image of something. When the A7Riv was my primary this wasn't an issue because the Shooting Mode and Frame Rate were set electronically.

Also birds in a tree I don't need or want the frame rate to be on H or H+ because I don't want to go through extra images later. And it is faster to change 1 dial than 2 or 3.

Doesn't matter. I have several custom modes set up for what I need. I spin the dial to 1, 2, or 3, and I have the settings I want. The last thing I need is to have to remember to move 2 or 3 dials to get something so common as burst rate. I guess that's Sony's idea of a 'professional' set up. Idiots.

Exactly.

And here we go! Sony puts their stupidity and lack of care for their customers on display once again! What a terrible decision.

In case you missed this: Sony A6700 ships without USB cable or charger! | sonyalpharumors

Folks, just be aware that if you buy the A6700 you will not be able to charge it because it doesn't come with USB cable or separate charger! I am aware that most of su have some USB cable in house, but if you don't...well you can't shoot anything with the camera :( Sony

www.sonyalpharumors.com

The charger was bad enough, now they can't include a $0.25 cable?

I don't think I have ever used a Sony charger. The lack of cable is due to the EU laws to reduce electronic waste.

 

[Uncle Kevriano]

And here we go! Sony puts their stupidity and lack of care for their customers on display once again! What a terrible decision.

In case you missed this: Sony A6700 ships without USB cable or charger! | sonyalpharumors

Folks, just be aware that if you buy the A6700 you will not be able to charge it because it doesn't come with USB cable or separate charger! I am aware that most of su have some USB cable in house, but if you don't...well you can't shoot anything with the camera :( Sony

www.sonyalpharumors.com

The charger was bad enough, now they can't include a $0.25 cable?

Misers. This really shows that they are thinking that everyone buying one is an existing customer or has a suitable cable and charger from another source.

 

[iamdlewis]

Misers. This really shows that they are thinking that everyone buying one is an existing customer or has a suitable cable and charger from another source.

This isn't a Sony thing. The EU is pushing for less electronic waste and cables are part of the problem, so they have a law that basically standardizes the charging cable requirements based on power needs and also told companies to no longer supply the cables starting at some point. Earlier this year I got a new Samsung phone and there was no cable and when Apple announced that they were no longer shipping cables with devices they claimed it was to save the planet rather than being told not to.

 

[iamdlewis]

Meanwhile everyone goes to the store or Amazon and buys one anyway, and it cost billions to make the rule.

Given that there is a significant population that is basically clueless about most things it will improve things if there is a standard charging cable. Most people will eventually figure out that if device A and device B both have the same shape charging port they can use the same cable and will understand that they already have lots of them. Will some people buy a new cable every time they buy a new device, sure but stupid can only be fixed to a point.

I don't understand your statement about the cost of making the rule.

 

[iamdlewis]

None of which has anything to do with supplying the needed cable with the camera. Why should someone paying $1400 for a camera have to 'eventually figure out' which cord they need to use? It's bullshit. Still not as bad as not supplying a $2 charger, but stupid nonetheless.

I have been trying to remember if my A6000 came with a charger but can't remember, I did get a kit which I believe had a non-Sony charger. I do know the reason why I got the A6000 over the Canon or Nikon was that you could charge it via USB through the camera.

As to the cost of making the rule, nothing on a bureaucratic or political level happens for free within a single government entity, let alone a union like the EU. The amount of money wasted on institutional stupidity isn't a new concept.

With that logic no decision is without a cost. I will say that I applaud the EU for creating this rule because it was clear that the electronics industry was starting to move more and more towards a world in which every device had a unique charging cable so that they could all make their $1 cable and charge us $15. Remember we use Sony who instead of making the camera body about 5% larger decided to go it alone with CF-Express Type A.

 

[AlphaWorld]

Hi Tony just wondering if you are in fact part of Sony official marketing team or just believe Sony can not do any wrong and that is a serious question

My only relationship with Sony is as a user of their products.

I've thought about the question at some length before, and came to the conclusion I summarised - that any other solution is worse. If you have a set of dials which control the drive mode and the focus mode, and which show the current mode, then any override of them in a custom mode is going to be troublesome.

Let's imagine the dial is set to AF-C, and you override it in custom mode 1 to MF - and you pick up the camera the following day and panic when the lens is not auto-focusing - is the lens broken?

The price of having those dials (and I like those dials) is the inability to override them in a custom mode.

Well, maybe it could be done - Sony could motorise those dials, and rotate them to the correct position when you switch modes. Not forgetting to unlock them before rotating. And if you have three custom modes each overriding them differently, then switching from one to the next starts spinning the dials...

OK, what if we remove the labels from the dials, and show the current setting in a little display? That means we can't set the dials without the camera being on, though. I do on occasion set them with the camera off - it's another advantage of having the physical dials (and a reason why I liked the physical exposure compensation dial).

Maybe add a light to indicate when the dial has been overridden in a custom mode? Does the dial stay inoperative in that mode, or does moving the dial override the override?

How would you solve it? It's a complicated question of user experience.

 

[spudhead]

My only relationship with Sony is as a user of their products.

I've thought about the question at some length before, and came to the conclusion I summarised - that any other solution is worse. If you have a set of dials which control the drive mode and the focus mode, and which show the current mode, then any override of them in a custom mode is going to be troublesome.

Let's imagine the dial is set to AF-C, and you override it in custom mode 1 to MF - and you pick up the camera the following day and panic when the lens is not auto-focusing - is the lens broken?

The price of having those dials (and I like those dials) is the inability to override them in a custom mode.

Well, maybe it could be done - Sony could motorise those dials, and rotate them to the correct position when you switch modes. Not forgetting to unlock them before rotating. And if you have three custom modes each overriding them differently, then switching from one to the next starts spinning the dials...

OK, what if we remove the labels from the dials, and show the current setting in a little display? That means we can't set the dials without the camera being on, though.

How would you solve it?

Tony I do not have an issue with the dials at all for myself I was just trying to put forward the point that we all have to accept that we do not all see things the same way which was the point of the thread. I have myself further up in the thread been told the dial arrangement is stupid, each to their own I guess its abc for me to change burst rate without my eye leaving the viewfinder and yes with my left hand, and I am right handed, and in fact I can have the camera in hi burst rate and still shoot a single frame, its simple really. Tony I think some posters have found it difficult to accept that you never have a negative thing to say about Sony and that fine if you are happy

 

[liggy]

Since I pretty much use the dials or the various buttons to change modes I'm a little confused.
Can you not get your preferred settings locked into the top right dial on 1,2 or 3?


Allows you to shoot an image after recalling your preferred shooting settings registered with [

Camera Set. Memory].

1. Set the mode dial to 1, 2, or 3 (
   
   Recall Camera Setting).
2. Press the center of the control wheel to confirm.
   • You can also recall registered modes or settings by selecting MENU →
     
     (Shooting) → [Shooting Mode] → [
     
     Recall Camera Setting].

Hint​

• To recall settings registered to the memory card, set the mode dial to 1, 2, 3 (
  
  Recall Camera Setting), then select the desired number by pressing the left/right side of the control wheel.
• If you recall settings registered to the memory card, the settings are recalled from the memory card in the slot specified in [
  
  Memory/Recall Media]. You can confirm the memory card slot by selecting MENU →
  
  (Shooting) → [Shooting Mode] → [
  
  Memory/Recall Media].
• Settings registered to a memory card using another camera of the same model name can be recalled with this camera.

Note​

• If you set [
  
  Recall Camera Setting] after completing the shooting settings, the registered settings are given priority and the original settings may become invalid. Check the indicators on the screen before shooting.
• If the slot to which images are recorded is set to change, the shooting settings will not be applied until writing to the memory card is complete even when the mode dial is set to 1/2/3.

I don't even remember what I input into 1,2 or 3. Typically I just hit the wheel for ISO which I change all the time I simply rotate the rear control wheel. For subject recognition I hit C3. For shutter speed, left dial goes from H+ to wherever it needs to go.

For long exposure - straight to M and DMF. I use crop mode frequently and it's programmed as a push on the right side of the control wheel and nearly all of my lenses have aperture dials.

Quick and easy (at least for me)

 

[iamdlewis]

Ever have a battery swell during charging? I have, and I almost didn't get it out. I absolutely refuse to charge in-camera. If a battery swells in the charger, it costs you a battery. If it swells in the camera, it could cost hundreds of dollars and repair time. Sony shipped the A7 IV without a charger, and that was the first thing I bought.

So the actual change for the A6700 vs older models is that they now no longer ship with a USB cable as none of the A6xxx series ship with a charger. So this is really a lot of nothing.

 

[Deleted Member 5045]

SSSSOOOONNNNYYYY!!!!

 

[AlphaWorld]

No, it's a lot of Sony downgrading their accessories once again. You can argue and debate all you want, this is pure bullshit and greed hidden under the guise of some nonsense earth-friendly garbage. If they can't do it in Europe because of the whiney-assed EU, they can still send them to the US. I'm still pissed I had to buy a charger for my A7 IV. No way Sony would get it my money after that. Aftermarket all the way. Do you think the elimination of that cable resulted in even one cent discount of the camera? Hardly.

Am I allowed to mention that Apple no longer supplies a charger with their phones?

 

[AlphaWorld]

Tony I do not have an issue with the dials at all for myself I was just trying to put forward the point that we all have to accept that we do not all see things the same way which was the point of the thread. I have myself further up in the thread been told the dial arrangement is stupid, each to their own I guess its abc for me to change burst rate without my eye leaving the viewfinder and yes with my left hand, and I am right handed, and in fact I can have the camera in hi burst rate and still shoot a single frame, its simple really. Tony I think some posters have found it difficult to accept that you never have a negative thing to say about Sony and that fine if you are happy

I’ve been trained from a young age to always consider the other point of view, and to consider the implications of what someone is asking for. Part of it was the family I grew up in, part of it relates to the work I do. I guess part of it might even be blamed on too much time in a debate team at school )

But when I see a bunch of people insisting on something is wrong or horrible or whatever, my mind insists on considering the opposite. Especially when I feel the discussion is unbalanced - there is always another side - and I speak up when it seems like a criticism is unfair. You don’t need to tell me that different people see things differently - I can’t help seeing that.

Hmm - maybe the way to get me to discuss negative aspects of Sony is to be effusively positive about something? Go on, I know you can do it!

 

[Uncle Kevriano]

This isn't a Sony thing. The EU is pushing for less electronic waste and cables are part of the problem, so they have a law that basically standardizes the charging cable requirements based on power needs and also told companies to no longer supply the cables starting at some point. Earlier this year I got a new Samsung phone and there was no cable and when Apple announced that they were no longer shipping cables with devices they claimed it was to save the planet rather than being told not to.

Save the planet, that won't help one iota. Stop China building coal fired power stations at a rate pf a few a day, that will help, not leaving out cables.

 

[MeowZzz]

We usually need lots of charge cables --- these go missing q. often and usually right after whenever the kids visit (which is probably just a coincidence)

Save the planet, that won't help one iota. Stop China building coal fired power stations at a rate pf a few a day, that will help, not leaving out cables.

Well, the whole plan has always been about confusion, struggle and chaos --- of course, the puppet-master could not give two hoots about the planet, but knows that those in Euro-US-AUS/NZ-Canada do.

 

[iamdlewis]

Save the planet, that won't help one iota. Stop China building coal fired power stations at a rate pf a few a day, that will help, not leaving out cables.

Or the decimation of rain forests. Yeah...USB cables...that'll solve it.

Ah the "well that won't solve the problem by itself so it isn't worth doing" argument. The law was created for 2 reasons, one of those reasons was to help reduce electronic waste (which it is doing) and the other more important reason was to protect consumers by creating a standard. You complain about having to buy a charger but look at the number of devices you have that need some kind of cable and think about how much you could be charged for each of them.
Like my gf bought headphones that have a unique charging cable that is about 8" long, feels super cheap and the replacement cost $15 plus shipping because there is no other source. This was the last model they released before the EU law took effect. This is the one item she has that doesn't use a USB-C cable.
As for the charger and the A6700 that doesn't appear to be a change for how they have shipped the A6xxx series. So why does it now matter now?

 

[MeowZzz]

Or the decimation of rain forests. Yeah...USB cables...that'll solve it.

Funny thing is, and depending on which expert, is that the global green coverage increased recently --- decimation does sound pretty final though.

A lot these figures can be very misleading (and it does seem to matter who pays what to which expert too - sort of like expert testimony) - but for me the funniest interpretation of data was when the 32% chance of there being global warming then turned (as if by magic) into 97% (all it took was a little palm lubing).

I have been waiting in my boat for the flooding ever since the 1980s and nothing has happened yet, but any day now...

Still, as kids we were told, that the next ice-age was just around the corner - well, that and as well that we would probably never get to have any actual sex as men would be unnecessary now that the tech was there for it to all be frozen for use later --- seems like one thing is for sure, nobody knows.

Now, I'd like a USB cable, as they keep nicking them whenever they come over!

 

[Deleted Member 5045]

Or the decimation of rain forests. Yeah...USB cables...that'll solve it.

Anything other than stopping their billionaire buddies from cutting them down...

 

[GracieAllen]

Just for a moment, back to cameras... Earlier in here, this was stated: "Companies survive by keeping their customers happy. With the ever and constantly shrinking camera market, it's even more important you stop people from going to someone who makes improvements."

I don't think Sony is very concerned about the statement above.

I have an Alpha 1. I periodically get asked if it's "great". I always say I like it, it's a very good camera. And they ask, "Why not great?" Two things I inferred would be coming from statements I read in various places before and after purchase, both of which were claimed to be able to be done in firmware: In-camera focus stacking - if a 6-year-old Nikon can stack 100 images, an Alpha 1 should. Pre-capture - If Nikon can provide firmware to do it in jpeg, Sony should be able to do a 2 (or more) second rolling buffer shooting 30 fps compressed RAW.

Other people have their own features they think the A1 lacks, that are important to them. These just happen to be mine.

 

[liggy]

Just for a moment, back to cameras... Earlier in here, this was stated: "Companies survive by keeping their customers happy. With the ever and constantly shrinking camera market, it's even more important you stop people from going to someone who makes improvements."

I don't think Sony is very concerned about the statement above.

I have an Alpha 1. I periodically get asked if it's "great". I always say I like it, it's a very good camera. And they ask, "Why not great?" Two things I inferred would be coming from statements I read in various places before and after purchase, both of which were claimed to be able to be done in firmware: In-camera focus stacking - if a 6-year-old Nikon can stack 100 images, an Alpha 1 should. Pre-capture - If Nikon can provide firmware to do it in jpeg, Sony should be able to do a 2 (or more) second rolling buffer shooting 30 fps compressed RAW.

Other people have their own features they think the A1 lacks, that are important to them. These just happen to be mine.

Interesting. I don't recall Sony ever saying the A1 will focus stack. I just dump my images into Affinity Photo and it'll stitch a pano or create an image stack for me. I love that I can program my Fujis to take a set number of images for stacking at focus distances I prescribe. That is neat.

The capabilities over all of the stacked sensor beast that is the A1 even today have me thinking that this is the greatest camera you can buy at the moment. Different strokes for sure.

 

[Deleted Member 5045]

Funny thing is, and depending on which expert, is that the global green coverage increased recently --- decimation does sound pretty final though.

A lot these figures can be very misleading (and it does seem to matter who pays what to which expert too - sort of like expert testimony) - but for me the funniest interpretation of data was when the 32% chance of there being global warming then turned (as if by magic) into 97% (all it took was a little palm lubing).

I have been waiting in my boat for the flooding ever since the 1980s and nothing has happened yet, but any day now...

Still, as kids we were told, that the next ice-age was just around the corner - well, that and as well that we would probably never get to have any actual sex as men would be unnecessary now that the tech was there for it to all be frozen for use later --- seems like one thing is for sure, nobody knows.

Now, I'd like a USB cable, as they keep nicking them whenever they come over!

A quick look at numbers will show that this past century has actually been uncannily stable in regards to the Earth's climate. Much like death numbers before covid vaccination showed absolutely no indication of any country being in any type of health crisis. Then after the injection and still accelerating, most of the Western countries are seeing between 12-20% in excess mortality, higher than even any war time in history.

I'm still beside myself at the rise in sea levels! Cronulla Beach looks like it's risen maybe one or two millimetres since I was a kid, give or take one or two millimetres I reckon!

Don't forget to buy all your digital device protection for the turn of the new century too. Because no digital device ever simply starts at zero once it gets to the end of a number cycle right? No, they blow up of course... ️

 

[GracieAllen]

Interesting. I don't recall Sony ever saying the A1 will focus stack. I just dump my images into Affinity Photo and it'll stitch a pano or create an image stack for me. I love that I can program my Fujis to take a set number of images for stacking at focus distances I prescribe. That is neat.

That's why it's one of the items on the list... It DOESN'T. And yeah, Affinity may render your focus stack adequately, but there's no built-in focus stacking on the Alpha 1...

 

[liggy]

That's why it's one of the items on the list... It DOESN'T. And yeah, Affinity may render your focus stack adequately, but there's no built-in focus stacking on the Alpha 1...

ok... no argument from me. I know the A1 doesn't focus stack. I use my GFX for that.

Unless Sony promised it at the outset I don't see why it's that big a deal. If not having in camera focus stacking is a dealbreaker then you bought the wrong camera.

People go on about Nikon and their updates via firmware. The difference to me is that they are essentially adding things that were missing at release but were touted pre-release. To me at least - there's a difference.

 

[GracieAllen]

Not a deal breaker, and I suspect Sony is VERY careful never to make any overt promises of features added to stay competitive. The topic asked, and there are things IMO that prevent a very good camera from being better. I'd add the third thing - a fully articulating LCD, but that's not something they could provide with a firmware update.

When asked, I don't push people at Nikon or anyone else, but I do suggest they look at the mfrs that are adding value during the life of their products as they fight to stay competitive. Especially with their much touted "flagship" products.

 

[liggy]

Not a deal breaker, and I suspect Sony is VERY careful never to make any overt promises of features added to stay competitive. The topic asked, and there are things IMO that prevent a very good camera from being better. I'd add the third thing - a fully articulating LCD, but that's not something they could provide with a firmware update.

When asked, I don't push people at Nikon or anyone else, but I do suggest they look at the mfrs that are adding value during the life of their products as they fight to stay competitive. Especially with their much touted "flagship" products.

lol... I came to Sony for the better tele glass options, killer tracking, autofocus and e-shutter performance that a stacked sensor delivers.

I already had focus stacking/bracketing/exposure bracketing etc. with my Fujis but really didn't use them very often. I guess our priorities are just different because Sony gave me exactly what I was missing from Fuji and is still doing it better than just about everyone else. And the A1 EVF blackout free shooting is just *money* imo. A1 still king for my use.

 

[AlphaWorld]

Ok, I have a complaint about Sony! (well, sort of…)

We were told that the A6700 would arrive in July, and the 70-200 f/4 G II would arrive in September. Nice and clear in the press release for each product.

Today my local dealer calls me to say my 70-200 G II has arrived! It’s not September! I thought it was a mistake: “I wanted the G II, not the GM II”, and “I wanted the G II, not the original 70-200 f/4”. Went in - it’s real. Lens is 2 months early! My dealer got several of them, plus a shipment of A6700 cameras, all today.

If you are waiting for an A6700 or a 70-200 f/4 G II, check with your dealer…

 

[GracieAllen]

lol... I came to Sony for the better tele glass options, killer tracking, autofocus and e-shutter performance that a stacked sensor delivers.

I already had focus stacking/bracketing/exposure bracketing etc. with my Fujis but really didn't use them very often. I guess our priorities are just different because Sony gave me exactly what I was missing from Fuji and is still doing it better than just about everyone else. And the A1 EVF blackout free shooting is just *money* imo. A1 still king for my use.

And that's good. This topic is about what Sony is doing RIGHT or WRONG... The A1 is a very good camera that does many things well. But, in a shrinking market, when your competitors are putting out capabilities that draw sales (Olympus pre-capture), Sony could be more responsive with firmware updates that provide much-requested capabilities that are of value to a subset of users - particularly on your flagship. Those who don't need or want those capabilities can ignore them.

 

[liggy]

And that's good. This topic is about what Sony is doing RIGHT or WRONG... The A1 is a very good camera that does many things well. But, in a shrinking market, when your competitors are putting out capabilities that draw sales (Olympus pre-capture), Sony could be more responsive with firmware updates that provide much-requested capabilities that are of value to a subset of users - particularly on your flagship. Those who don't need or want those capabilities can ignore them.

Sony disappointed me by failing to offer any meaningful functional updates to the A9II. I spent an extra $1K on it instead of the A9 in hopes that they would be more likely to upgrade the II. Nope.

Lesson learned. Updating existing bodies is not the Sony way. I wish it were otherwise of course but have zero expectations.

Kind of like in the frequent traveler world. Even for high level elites - upgrades are becoming more difficult to get.
The adage is ”buy the class/suite you need” as you cannot count on an upgrade.

 

[Deleted Member 5045]

I
LOVE
SONY
YEEEEEHAAAAR!

 

[spudhead]

Ok, I have a complaint about Sony! (well, sort of…)

We were told that the A6700 would arrive in July, and the 70-200 f/4 G II would arrive in September. Nice and clear in the press release for each product.

Today my local dealer calls me to say my 70-200 G II has arrived! It’s not September! I thought it was a mistake: “I wanted the G II, not the GM II”, and “I wanted the G II, not the original 70-200 f/4”. Went in - it’s real. Lens is 2 months early! My dealer got several of them, plus a shipment of A6700 cameras, all today.

If you are waiting for an A6700 or a 70-200 f/4 G II, check with your dealer…

Nice for you Tony so I will assume you will review the lens for us including some shots please

 

[Deleted Member 5045]

Nice for you Tony so I will assume you will review the lens for us including some shots please

Cannot wait!