Sony A9III & FE 300 F2.8 GM Announcement Discussion

[Paul stuart]

More interesting than the 120 FPS is the composite RAW feature.

Composite RAW Shooting captures multiple images (4, 8, 16, or 32, selectable) which can then be merged using Sony's Imaging Edge Desktop™ computer application software to create full-resolution images with very low noise.19 This makes it possible to shoot wildlife at high shutter speeds or portraits in low light, achieving exceptionally high image quality with low noise, even at higher ISO settings. What's more, when shooting at low sensitivity levels, the α9 III can take advantage of camera shake that occurs during handheld shooting and use Composite RAW to create images with reduced false colour and jaggies. (1) Standard (2) Composite RAW.

So can we now shoot at ISO 51,200 and get a nice clean image?

we will see ,a clean image maybe possible sort of how smart phones get around the small sensor thing with compiling images ,shame it is not in camera and i think the iq will take a hit also the iso range starts iso 250 so iam thinking dr will not be great,

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

I think I pay for features I don't use on every camera I buy

I don't shoot video. Or bursts. But I guess I'm paying quite a lot for my camera's capabilities under those headings.

Tell me one thing you shoot that needs this kind of speed?

And how about 1/80,000th? I really thought that that was a typo when I first saw it!

edit: typo in the word typo

 

[pointreyes]

And how about 1/80,000th? I really thought that that was a typos when I first saw it!

I remember when a spec on the Fujifilm X-H2 came out that had all people questioning it - maximum electronic shutter speed of 1/180,000th.

 

[Clix Pix]

I have trouble enough managing to sort through files where I've shot 30 fps, and since I already seem to have a heavy finger on the shutter release at such times, I shudder to think how quickly I'd run through a memory card! AIEEEEEE!!!!! I can see, though, how this new camera and its speediness would be considered to be really valuable for many sports shooters, especially at major events such as the Olympics, where that one perfect image, nailed exactly (or almost) as it was happening, could be significant..... But who has to sort through the lot to find that image?

Thankfully I don't need that kind of speed for the (primarily) water birds I shoot. Also, I like that on the A1 I have more megapixels and subsequently more flexibility when it comes to cropping, as it does seem to be necessary, more often than not.

So I read the info about the new A9 III and said to myself, "very nice, but not something I really need or want....."

However, um, yes, that 300mm f/2.8 is something I am drooling over, and already trying to figure out the best strategy for getting one of these beauties. Having had a Nikon 300mm f/2.8 in the past, I know how versatile this particular type of lens can be, with and without a TC. The weight was something I was waiting to hear about, as while I can walk around my neighborhood with my 100-400mm, no problem, the 200-600mm definitely poses difficulties for me. This new lens would work nicely since it is lighter than the one lens and only slightly heavier than the other. OK, the weight issue is out of the way....

Then we come to the financial piece of this, and, yeah, being able to justify such an expense for an old lady hobbyist who just loves to photograph the local wildlife......ouch! I had guessed that the price tag would be fairly high, but had underestimated it by about $1000 or so...... Back to the drawing board. In the meantime I look forward to seeing and reading reviews once this gorgeous lens is actually in the hands of other photographers.

 

[AlphaWorld]

Last comments from me (for now, at least)

I just pre-ordered the 300 GM. I was hovering on whether to do so - the big question was would it be heavier than the 200-600 (2.1kg)? That weight can be a bit much for me. The existing 300mm f/2.8 lenses are heavier - 2.9kg and 2.4kg. I was hoping 2.0kg. So the news that it's under 1.5kg was a huge relief (it weighs about the same as some of the 70-200 f/2.8 lenses I've used in the past).

I've been using the 70-200mm f/2.8 GM II a lot, and wanting a bit more length (not a huge amount, but some). The lens is what I wanted. That function ring can be set to switch between FF and APS-C, so I'll have 300 / 450 on tap, and I already own the teleconverters. Mark Galer made it clear that the TCs work well on this lens, and that cropping into the image produces good results. It also appears to be sharp all the way across the frame, so off-centre crops are good.

I've pre-ordered it not knowing the exact price, but expecting it to be a bit under A$10k, just as the A1 was (and the A1 was US$6500, not 6000)

Still pondering the A9III. I love the whole idea of the tech, but I dunno if I should spend that much on this one. It's sorely tempting, so don't be too surprised if I yield to the temptation - after all, I have until February or March to save up for it

I think the reason the A9III is so filled with features was because Sony decided to go for the global shutter, which made the sensor a really expensive new component, so they decided to make that higher price more palatable by giving you a whole slew of new features which global shutter enabled - the full width video, the no-dark-bars under LED light, the flash sync at any speed (even if it's "only" 1/500 with my studio strobes, that's a big jump up from my current 1/200 on A1, 1/250 on A7RV), the ultra-fast 1/80000 shutter speed, oh, and yeah, the insane frame rate... I think the way it boils down is that you have to bite off the global shutter sensor part, but all the extras follow.

Will they make a cheaper global shutter sensor one day? Of course they will. Don't hold your breath, though, this one will be the only one for a while.

- - - - -

One final observation: I just realised that the A1, the A7RV. and now the A9III all have the same EVF - the one with three times the number of dots in the Z9 and Z8... I really like that EVF on the A1 and the A7RV. It won't be the final thing that makes me order the A9III, but it does add to the temptation

 

[iamdlewis]

I have owned at least three cameras with pixel shift multi-shot, and apart from one brief experiment, I've never used it, and I don't expect to.

I was using this feature as a poor man's interval shooting before they added that actual feature.

I think this is the first time I've seen a piece of gear come out and not have all the full reviews from the YouTube guys on the moment of announcement.

Didn't the same happened with the A1? With the A1 nobody had details prior to the release event.

And how about 1/80,000th? I really thought that that was a typos when I first saw it!

Lee Morris from fStoppers thinks this could be used for some really interesting flash photography as it would basically allow you to remove all environmental light and just capture the strobe light.

One final observation: I just realised that the A1, the A7RV. and now the A9III all have the same EVF - the one with three times the number of dots in the Z9 and Z8... I really like that EVF on the A1 and the A7RV. It won't be the final thing that makes me order the A9III, but it does add to the temptation

From what I've seen it is actually better because you can use the higher refresh rate without any feature loss.

I'm surprised no one is mentioning the A1 Firmware not due until March. Given that, I think the A9III is their release for the Olympics, and the A1M2 is another year away.

I had slight hope that the firmware updated would be released but honestly didn't think it would be as it feels too soon to their release that said they have screwed up with firmware updates. If they would have less than a full quarter for testing I would be really worried.

 

[Deleted Member 5045]

Didn't the same happened with the A1? With the A1 nobody had details prior to the release event.

The A1 came out before I started doing photography...

 

[spudhead]

Sony did a really good job of keeping this under wraps.

They should have leaked it they would have sold a shed load of AI bodies if we had known the specs of the in the mainly pointless a9iii they revealed

 

[Deleted Member 5045]

They should have leaked it they would have sold a shed load of AI bodies if we had known the specs of the in the main pointless a9iii they revealed

I was shocked when I woke up to read that it was still 24mp. 36mp at 80fps would have been a far more attractive camera to the vast majority. Outright speed was their main priority obviously.

I think the most exciting part of the announcement of the A9III is more so what it means for the upcoming bodies from Sony.

 

[spudhead]

I was shocked when I woke up to read that it was still 24mp. 36mp at 80fps would have been a far more attractive camera to the vast majority. Outright speed was their main priority obviously.

I think the most exciting part of the announcement of the A9III is more so what it means for the upcoming bodies from Sony.

yep strange direction for sure with this a9iii

 

[iain clyne]

Bet the delay till spring for the A1 firmware is to try and get people to buy the A9iii. I for one will be waiting for the firmware.

 

[iamdlewis]

I think the delay in the A1m2 is for that reason. Sony doesn't want to release two mega cameras at the same time.

It does seem odd they can't pull of a firmware update sooner, especially since the A1 and A7S III have been around forever. The good news is that these are more likely to add/upgrade features rather than just fix bugs, like an update for a newer camera.

The A9iii having a global shutter probably means that the A1ii will have one as well so I can see that a delay will be used to see what issues the A9iii has in the wild and correct before releasing the A1ii. But also yeah two cameras like this in close proximity does impact sales.

I don't think Sony has been working on the firmware update that long. Given that they will most likely add features that for other cameras are done on a different processor means that it isn't as easy a port. We have all hear the stories about what can happen when a firmware update goes bad.

 

[Paul stuart]

Bet the delay till spring for the A1 firmware is to try and get people to buy the A9iii. I for one will be waiting for the firmware.

yes but the a9 iii is released in spring summer time also so those who can afford and want a camera now get the a1 or one of a7 series ,still every pro sports shooter will have one these cameras ear marked ,they can not live with second best ,and this is way better than the competition by some margin,hey jared can you hear that ,thats the sound of the sony money truck backing up.

 

[AlphaWorld]

Wanna' bet? A M-4/3 global shutter sensor was introduced several months ago. The current belief is that the GH7 will have one.

Now, if you want to qualify that with the only 'full frame' global shutter camera for a while, I can agree.

Yeah, first full-frame global shutter - Sony put that qualifier in each time they said it.

I'm wondering if they'll release an A1 mark II without a global shutter. If the 24 megapixels is the highest res global shutter they can make today (that has been suggested, and there was a hint in the announcement), and there are a lot of A1 shooters saying how they don't need a global shutter, then maybe announcing an A1 mark II with a stacked sensor without global shutter but with all the other goodies... That would quiet down the "but I want more pixels" and "I'm not swapping my A1 for that" crowds, and might nudge some people who are waiting to see the specs of the A1 mark II before committing to the A9 III. Could be a clever move.

Oh, Tim just said the same thing!

I also wonder if they plan to bring out the A9 design that lots of people imagined (more pixels, stacked but not global shutter, etc) with a different name, maybe next year. So the A9 is still their top-of-the-line speed demon, but they have a lesser body for the smaller budget? It's clear Sony has no fear of adding new camera families.

 

[spudhead]

Its a shame Sony have not put pre-focus on the new 300 2.8 I use it a lot on the a-mount version to pre set predicted focus areas which are perfectly in focus when you drop back to them

 

[AlphaWorld]

Sony has put a bottleneck on how fast it can clear its camera’s buffer, which is where all photos it captures go as they are shot before they are written to memory, that can possibly happen by not using the CFexpress 4.0 standard. For those who argue it’s probably because the standard was only announced this past August, that doesn’t hold water: memory card makers and camera manufacturers are directly involved in setting the standard. That’s why memory card makers like ProGrade Digital were able to release a new CFexpress 4.0 standard card and reader almost immediately.

Sony knew it was coming a long time ago and still chose not to include it in the a9 III. It is also worth noting that the CFexpress 4.0 standard is fully backward compatible with no drawbacks, meaning there is no disadvantage to include it from a user’s standpoint.

Sony declined to explain why CFexpress 4.0 was not included in the a9 III.

Let’s talk about the possible three limitations of the Sony A9III: Image Quality, Human “bias” and Type A card as “bottleneck” | sonyalpharumors

https://youtu.be/q_Tsu9UJnBM Liek with any nw camera release testers are trying to find out the limitations of this camera. We found a couple of them being discussed: ThePhoBlographer pointed out towards a "racial bias" in the human AI: Better autofocus performance for people of color: Nikon did...

www.sonyalpharumors.com

Ah, pity. I was wondering if the slots were made as CFexpress 4.0 and Sony just didn't tell us That would have been cool, and handy.

Here's a guess as to why: The A9 III uses a pair of BIONZ XR chips, and we know the XR is at least a few years old - it first appeared on the A1, which was announced in January 2021. The specs of the XR must have bee solidified well before that (probably a year, maybe more). The V2 CFexpress type A spec uses PCIe 3 as its base; the V4 spec uses PCIe 4 as its base. Maybe the XR just doesn't have the PCIe 4 lanes that V4 requires?

Still, it gives Sony the option to make a refresh to the A9III in a year or two (yes, an A9 IIIa!) giving it CFexpress V4 slots. Just think of the A9III bodies hitting the second hand market...

Or if you want to be a bit more cynical, maybe it's so Sony has something to put in the A9 IV in three/four years time?

 

[AlphaWorld]

Mark me: The A1m2 will have new processors.

I honestly see no reason dual BionZ XR processors couldn't write at whatever speed they want. I suspect it was a calculated move to reserve it for the A1m2.

Guess we’ll see.

If they release the A1 mark II soon, it may also use XR, but may not be global shutter (so it won’t matter.

If they wait, then I agree, likely to have a new processor, and quite possibly support for the V4 type A cards (Gee, I really wanted to need to but another new and expensive card :-( ) Still, I think the ones I already own will still work at their rated speed.

- - - - -

I had a cute idea: what if Sony created a new setting for writing to dual card slots? What if they wrote alternate files to each card: write file 1 to slot 1, 2 to slot 2, 3 to slot 1, and so on. Why do I suggest this? Because it gives you a lot of emergency backup (card 1 fails, you still have half the images, and if you are in the habit of shooting everything two or three times, you’ll have copies of everything). And because it may be possible to overlap the writing (I don’t know if the two slots are fully independent, and can be written in parallel, but if they can, then you could get close to double the throughput).

Yes, this is not quite as good a backup as writing everything to both slots, but it gives you good coverage in the remote chance of a card failure, plus it gives you twice as many images before you have to change cards.

What do you think of the idea?

 

[Slug]

Bit of a waste of the second slot I think. I write jpeg to one and RAW to the other which gives me the back up I need .
The jpegs are good from A1 with plenty of room left for further processing.

 

[AlphaWorld]

With neither the A1m2 firmware nor the A9III being released until March, I'm betting that the A1m2 won't be here until the end of 2024, maybe early 2025. It seems Sony wants their new global shutter to be their star at the Olympics and an A1m2 release before that could make the 9III fade. This is my reasoning for just going ahead and getting an A1 now. I'm sure the camera is more than capable even though some think it's getting long in the tooth. Anything they do to it with firmware will just be icing on the cake.

On the other hand, we're still waiting for a second premium camera release. A7SIV? Maybe, but firmware for the A7SIII was rumored with this other stuff, so that seems a reach. It just doesn't seem like Sony would release firmware for the A1 and A7SIII then follow so closely with an updated camera. Then again, Sony does a lot of stuff that doesn't make sense to me, so my hypothesis could be all wet!

The A1 remains an excellent camera. Sometimes I forget that, because it's "always been there" (I got one of the first two my dealer received). I've been using it more recently (and taking it out today - just me, the A1, the 70-200 GM II, and both TCs). I do love silent shooting!

If you are not heavily into eye-detect AF (using small spot, for example), the A1 is absolutely brilliant.

Don't forget that you have to use the dials on the left shoulder to change frame rate (single / Hi+ / Hi / M / L - you get to choose the speed for all except Hi+) and the focus mode (AF-S / AF-C / DMF / MF). Judging by the reports on the A9III that restriction is removed on the A9 III, and will probably be on the A1 II.

 

[AlphaWorld]

My idea was that you get a measure of backup (each card holds images from throughout the shoot) without losing capacity - you still get the full capacity of both cards (exactly as you do with overflow). PLUS there's the possibility of being able to save images to card faster. Not a big issue on the A1, but on something like the A9III, where clearing a full 192 frame burst might take 8 seconds. Cutting that to 4 or 5 seconds would be nice.

Probably never happen, but I thought it was an interesting idea.

Don't see how it's a "waste of the second slot" - it's using it to spread the load.

 

[spudhead]

It can be programmed into one of the Custom modes on the A9, I think Spud investigated that for me. Are you sure it can't be done on the A1? I don't like it and it's something else I'll have to remember, but I reckon I'll get used to it like anything else.

For sure it can be done on the a9i , so would think it can be done on a1 menu diving required

 

[AlphaWorld]

It can be programmed into one of the Custom modes on the A9, I think Spud investigated that for me. Are you sure it can't be done on the A1? I don't like it and it's something else I'll have to remember, but I reckon I'll get used to it like anything else.

I didn't think it could. I shall see if it can because I want to know!

 

[AlphaWorld]

OK, this doesn't make complete sense to me, but I think it's what you meant. Let me know what you think:

ILCE-1 | Help Guide | Registering shooting settings to a custom key (Reg. Custom Shoot Set)

So you register a set of settings to a custom mode (the 1 / 2 / 3 on the PASM dial), but you don't activate it by turning the dial to 1 / 2 / 3 - you assign a custom button to activate it, and it only applies while you hold the customer button. Weirdly, there's a note that this only works if the PASM dial is set to P or A or S or M. When you hold the custom button, it swiches to that mode, INCLUDING the drive mode (except for self-timer). It also records "focus setting", but I'm unclear if that include focus mode (AF-S vs AF-C, etc). Would be cool if it did. When you release the button it reverts to the previous settings.

MAYBE the reason this requires a custom button is so that the override of the top left dials is only while the button is down?

I haven't tried this because I'm kinda busy today and don't want to save my settings, change one of them, test it, etc. Sorry!

Maybe someone else can test it and see if this works?

@spudhead - is that how it works on the A9?

If this works as advertised, I'll want to know if it requires sacrificing one of the custom modes to use it.

 

[-ST-]

Hi, Tony,
On my A1...

OK, this doesn't make complete sense to me, but I think it's what you meant. Let me know what you think:

ILCE-1 | Help Guide | Registering shooting settings to a custom key (Reg. Custom Shoot Set)

So you register a set of settings to a custom mode (the 1 / 2 / 3 on the PASM dial), but you don't activate it by turning the dial to 1 / 2 / 3 - you assign a custom button to activate it, and it only applies while you hold the customer button. Weirdly, there's a note that this only works if the PASM dial is set to P or A or S or M.

I know the documentation says this, but I use Recall Custom Hold all the time and it works fine when I have the PASM dial on 1, 2, or 3.

When you hold the custom button, it swiches to that mode, INCLUDING the drive mode (except for self-timer). It also records "focus setting", but I'm unclear if that include focus mode (AF-S vs AF-C, etc).

It does.

Would be cool if it did. When you release the button it reverts to the previous settings.

MAYBE the reason this requires a custom button is so that the override of the top left dials is only while the button is down?

I haven't tried this because I'm kinda busy today and don't want to save my settings, change one of them, test it, etc. Sorry!

Maybe someone else can test it and see if this works?

@spudhead - is that how it works on the A9?

If this works as advertised, I'll want to know if it requires sacrificing one of the custom modes to use it.

Check out

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[AlphaWorld]

OK, that's news to me. When I looked at the documentation for changing focus mode, it told me about the dial. Likewise drive mode - all about the dial. And when I save a setup to 1 / 2 / 3 it doesn't save the focus mode or drive mode.

Sorry for the mis-lead, but I claim the documentation was incomplete (and my ignorance of Custom Hold was complete!).

Glad it does what you want, then.

I now have (yet another) rabbit hole to disappear down

 

[spudhead]

same old people think they know the camera they have and really they do not

 

[AlphaWorld]

same old people think they know the camera they have and really they do not

Absolutely. I walk though the entire menu as one of the first things I do with each new camera, but things are getting so complex now that even if I've seen the menu item, I don't always understand its intended use, let alone the subtleties.

 

[iamdlewis]

If they put a GS in the A1m2 it'll be an $8,000 camera. I am thinking they'll give it a lot of improvements ala A7R V, maybe add a few neato things from the A9III, but leave the A9III completely unique in the lineup with regard to the GS, flash sync, and speed.

The A1ii is going to be an $8000 camera global shutter or not. Inflation alone suggests a price of the A1 today would be about 7500. I agree the A1ii will not be announced until at least the fall of next year if not Jan of the following, especially if they add in a lot with the firmware update. If it does take till 2025 there is the possibility that it would be another 20% higher based on what some people running for president have stated.

I expect that the A1 firmware will add all the video features that appear on the lesser models. For photo I would say we will get the pre-capture, eye-AF prioritization and some general improvement in AF. Less likely for photo will be more subject recognition options.

 

[AlphaWorld]

The A1ii is going to be an $8000 camera global shutter or not. Inflation alone suggests a price of the A1 today would be about 7500. I agree the A1ii will not be announced until at least the fall of next year if not Jan of the following, especially if they add in a lot with the firmware update. If it does take till 2025 there is the possibility that it would be another 20% higher based on what some people running for president have stated.

I expect that the A1 firmware will add all the video features that appear on the lesser models. For photo I would say we will get the pre-capture, eye-AF prioritization and some general improvement in AF. Less likely for photo will be more subject recognition options.

Right now the A1 offers only Human, Animal, Bird Eye AF. At the very least I would expect it to get all the subject recognition built into the A9III (which is everything in the A7RV, plus two tweaked Animal/Bird modes, prioritising animals or birds). If you mean, not more than that, then fair enough. But it will definitely get more than the A1 Mark 1.

The next year is going to be fun, as we see the fan wars over unreleased cameras - why the A9III must be better than the R1 or the Z9 mark II or the Leica M12… Many of the arguments between people who won’t be buying any of them

At least we won’t be bored. And the truth is likely to be that all the high end cameras are “best” at something, and no camera is best at everything. Well, except my A1 mark III, which will be perfect

 

[spudhead]

If we have learned anything from the last couple of camera body releases it is possibly that often the long wait is not worth it, and somewhat of a let down at times and given the fact we want different things from a camera, it seems that what might be better is to buy what is available now and live with the short comings or work around what you might see as the minus points. For sure we possibly are getting lazy and relying too much on in camera tech, because all things considered I suppose no current or future camera is or will be perfect, and in fact I can not think of a really bad current Sony full frame body. I guess the a9iii is still months away and then we have the wait for any issues to be sorted and processing software to catch up and so on