Sony A1 The MOST basic thing - getting Exposure right (I'm failing)

[GracieAllen]

A question so basic as to be embarrassing…

Past: D500, Tamron 150-600 G2. Manual mode, 1/2500, f/9 – f/11, Auto ISO with limit of 6400. Almost always spot meter. Focus area 99% in “Group”. Worked fine. With the spot meter, metering was essentially always where the camera focused – or possibly some part of the group area. Birds were almost always well exposed. Occasionally with a snowy egret or black bird I’ll be slightly off, but never more than about 1 stop. Rarely even looked at the “blinkies” display.

Current: Alpha 1, Sony 200-600, Aperture mode, Auto ISO, Min SS 1/2000 or “Faster” with range 100-6400. Zebras on, with Minimum 107+ (I’ve also tried 109+). I have the spot meter set to the spot where the focus is. I’ve tried Multi. My exposures are WAY off too often for my liking. I almost always have zebras, sometimes a LOT of zebras, and since they’re so frequently there, I note them then usually ignore them because is MOST cases the areas AREN’T blown out in the RAW image.

I’m usually busy enough that I’m not looking at the histogram when my subject may only give me 2 or 3 seconds to get a shot.

My exposures are mostly not bad, but way too often they suck. I shot some last evening, and the camera did a good job of the eye focus, but the white areas of the birds were so blown out there was no recovering it. At -2.5 stops or so in Lightroom I finally got rid of the over exposure, but there’s absolutely NO detail in the feathers where the bird is white. My presumption is the focus is on the eye, which is black, and getting that reasonably correct is blowing out the whites.

Using Multi seems fine for “normal” stuff, but long lens, dark birds with bright backgrounds, or white birds like seagulls against a deep blue sky it’s not very good. Or even sidelit birds with white and a dark tree as background.

Do I need to change the zebra level to 100+? Since the zebras are an output of the camera’s exposure, that just seems like it would TELL me there’s overexposure (at the jpeg level), but wouldn’t CHANGE the exposure. And I wouldn’t be using the dynamic range the camera has (expose to the right)…

How are y’all handling your metering? Are you constantly changing the exposure compensation? I’ve read different places that person A just always leaves it in Multi, and person B uses 100+ for zebra level so they never overexpose (but virtually always under expose). Others say they use the spot meter, with one person saying they always use the Highlight spot (would that help?). Exposure compensation, whether on a button or using the dial, is very slow to be fiddling with.

SO, what changes do I need to make in my shooting to get more accurate exposures? Hopefully, it’s not “constantly watch the histogram and change exposure compensation all the time” – that seems like regressing about 20 years.

 

[Deleted Member 5003]

Did you have also Have Auto iso +min SS set in using aperture priority......... As per my previous mails this setting is only applicable for AP....

if you set the aperture to your desired setting, the camera only has shutter speed and iso adjustment to accommodate optimum exposure Based upon your spot metering exposure evaluation.

if you have Auto iso + min SS set also this may be limiting the shutter control to higher speeds than are needed for the camera to optimize exposure .......it is a thought, but worthy of checking .........

 

[GracieAllen]

I have it set when using Aperture mode for Action. I've since redone the Action shooting mode in manual as the Auto ISO min SS is not as useful as I'd expected.

 

[Deleted Member 5003]

I prefer to use Auto-Iso in Manual and only have to ensure i control shutter speed and aperture
in line with either action or subject movement and/or DOF/Bokeh or not as i require......

It seems to work ok for me and I occasionally get a high ISO wherein I take care of the noise/grain in
post processing.

 

[GracieAllen]

I replaced my Action shooting mode with a Manual one. Just uses auto ISO for exposure control.

I tried some testing this afternoon to see if there is an exposure issue.

Took the D850 and Alpha 1 with equivalent lenses, and shot a black sheet. D850 used Matrix and spot meter, Alpha 1 used Multi and spot standard meter, and wide and small spot focus areas.

Results were the same withing 1/3 stop. At 1/100, f/8, the D850 needed ISO 800 and the Alpha 1 1000. Too close to be meaningful.
Also shot a white target using 1/100, f/10 and got ISO 50 on both, though they both bounced repeatedly between 0 and +1/3 stop, but there was a minuscule amount of air movement, so again, not meaningful.

At that point I realized that on the Alpha 1, I DON'T have a good way to change ISO while seeing the effect on exposure. Typically there's an exposure scale in the bottom of the EVF. But, to change ISO, I select ISO on the control wheel and that scale disappears. SAME problem with the histogram displayed. Selecting ISO removes the histogram. I can change the ISO value, but I can't see the effect on the exposure.

I remembered someone else put ISO on the control wheel, and I tried that a while ago. It was a disaster. I repeatedly moved the wheel without knowing it and shifted from Auto ISO to ISO 50 several times.

I presume there's some better way to change ISO while keeping the histogram or exposure scale visible and functional, but I haven't found it yet.

 

[spudhead]

I do not have the A1 so not sure this helps but in manual on the a9 iso is auto and same on a99ii I actually hate that as a feature, but dialing plus or minus comp dial lifts or lowers iso , I do not know if the histogram will disappear or not but maybe that will help, I know all these things take some getting used to when changing brands.

 

[GracieAllen]

It appears that on the Alpha 1, when I'm in Manual mode, the Exposure Compensation doesn't do anything. I don't get an error when I rotate the dial, but it doesn't change the ISO or the exposure as near as I can tell. I also have C1 programmed to do exposure compensation, and there I get an error that says it's "Unavailable in the current ISO setting. Valid in Auto ISO." So the camera presumes I'm smart enough to adjust the ISO, which I'm not so good at!

The underlying problem with the control wheel is 20+ years of shooting Nikon where that "dial" is used to move focus points, review, and examination of areas of the image when checking focus stacks. And they way I USE it is to press, the move to the next quadrant I need to move. So with the rotating dial changing ISO, I constantly change it. I haven't gotten automatic at using the joystick to move things around.

And since the Alpha 1 can't do image stacking, and 15-20% of my images are stacks, I have to keep the Nikon D850 so UNLEARNING the habit is being really difficult.

Fortunately, normally if I'm in Manual and setting my own shutter and aperture, I'm also in Auto ISO. I may have to just REMEMBER to program this when I need to adjust ISO and see the effect on exposure, 'cause there doesn't seem to be a good alternative on this body.

 

[GracieAllen]

This has been a while, and it may be what y’all were explaining to me, but I didn’t have enough context for it to make sense…

The "EXPOSURE meter" I’m looking at in the viewfinder, that goes from -5 to +5 stops, is almost NEVER an EXPOSURE METER. Except for 1 situation, its just for exposure compensation.

If I’m in aperture mode, IN Auto-ISO st STD, I can increase the f-stop and ISO goes up and the shutter speed keeps getting lower. Eventually, ISO can’t go higher and shutter speed won’t go any lower – so far, .5 seconds (a limit for continuous shooting?). But, the tick mark is still at zero. I can keep increasing the aperture, and as near as I can tell, the ONLY thing that happens is the small “.5” shutter speed indicator buried in the bottom left of the viewfinder starts blinking. The TICK mark I’m watching in the middle of the meter doesn’t move, nothing else tells me I’m getting more and more underexposed. UNTIL I get 5 stops UNDER, when the arrowhead on the underexposure side blinks.

The same behavior seems to happen when I’m in aperture and NOT in Auto ISO.

The only time it DOESN'T appear to do this (and I didn't try the Program or auto modes 'cause I never use them), is when I put the camera in COMPLETE manual mode, NO Auto-ISO. THEN the exposure meter acts like an EXPOSURE meter. As I make changes the tick mark moves, and if I get at least 5 stops off, the arrowhead on the ends of the scale blink.

BUT, NOTHING else happens. The shutter speed indicator and aperture don’t blink. All that happens is the tick mark moves and eventually the tiny arrowheads blink.

If I do the same thing in manual mode, but I’m IN Auto-ISO, the meter goes back to NOT responding to exposure. The tick mark sits at zero, eventually if I hit the ISO limit the AUTO blinks, but nothing else happens. If I get more than 5 stops under or overexposed, the arrowhead blinks.

If I understand this correctly, other than in the very rare situation where I’m in Manual Mode and NOT in Auto-ISO, the meter that always on the screen is limited to showing Exposure Compensation. Is there a setting in any menu that will tell the camera to use this scale for exposure (not compensation) any time I’m NOT doing exposure compensation? Or even ALL the time, so exposure compensation gets incorporated into the exposure?

 

[AlphaWorld]

The exposure meter is for the old-school types running manual everything - manual shutter speed, manual aperture, manual ISO. In those circumstances, you need the meter to tell you when you have a combination that meters as correctly exposed.

It’s not an absolute meter (it doesn’t say “this scene is EV 17”) - it’s relative to what it considers “correct”, so it’s showing you how much underexposed or overexposed the image is.

When you are using automatic exposure, the camera adjusts what it is allowed to adjust to give you a “correct” exposure despite what settings you change You increase the aperture to let in more light, it drops the ISO or reduces the shutter speed, trying desperately to give you a correct exposure. That mark in the middle is telling you that the image is correctly exposed, according to its metering - bear in mind that if you have spot metering then the rest of the image could be overexposed (spot is on something black) or underexposed (spot is on a lightbulb)

Arguably, the exposure meter is not very useful in auto-exposure.

 

[GracieAllen]

It doesn't appear the on-screen "meter" can be set to indicate incorrect exposure, so my question is answered.

 

[Gaz]

Well, you obviously know a thing or two. I’d start my ruling out equipment failure. Reset to factory defaults then try shooting fifty clicks on the green button. It could be a tweak you’ve inadvertently made in customization, as simple as picture profile adjustment impacting your jpegs.

 

[GracieAllen]

The camera was reset to factory defaults a while ago... I don't have the body inside, but WHY would I shoot fifty clicks on the green button? I'll have to find the green button. Are you talking about the jpgs it uses to show exposure? 'Cause I never shoot jpgs.

Without going into a huge amount of detail, if I'm using the mult-meter, shooting great egrets in full sun, in an normal greenery setting, they're very over exposed. Even at 109+ there are LOTS of zebras. I've been correcting the exposure by putting -1EV in the exposure compensation. Which is BETTER. But, it also means the blue heron that flies in to land is now underexposed. And if it's an anhinga, it's really underexposed. And because it's a "move instantly from the egret to the heron or anhinga as quickly as possible" moment, there's no time to screw around changing the exposure compensation.

Tried the "spot" meter. It DOESN'T appear to read the exposure the same place it FOCUSES... As near as I can tell, the metering is tied to the position of the static spot (red rectangle with a black circle around it), NOT the spot where the tracking put the actual focus. So if the static spot gets pushed into a dark area for composition, while the tracking puts and keeps the actual focus on the egret's eye, the bird gets blindingly overexposed.

It seems bizarre that the spot METERING and spot FOCUSING wouldn't be the same place, but that's what it appears. I haven't found anything in the camera information about HOW to MAKE the metering move with the tracking spot.

 

[-ST-]

The camera was reset to factory defaults a while ago... I don't have the body inside, but WHY would I shoot fifty clicks on the green button? I'll have to find the green button. Are you talking about the jpgs it uses to show exposure? 'Cause I never shoot jpgs.

Without going into a huge amount of detail, if I'm using the mult-meter, shooting great egrets in full sun, in an normal greenery setting, they're very over exposed. Even at 109+ there are LOTS of zebras. I've been correcting the exposure by putting -1EV in the exposure compensation. Which is BETTER. But, it also means the blue heron that flies in to land is now underexposed. And if it's an anhinga, it's really underexposed. And because it's a "move instantly from the egret to the heron or anhinga as quickly as possible" moment, there's no time to screw around changing the exposure compensation.

Tried the "spot" meter. It DOESN'T appear to read the exposure the same place it FOCUSES... As near as I can tell, the metering is tied to the position of the static spot (red rectangle with a black circle around it), NOT the spot where the tracking put the actual focus. So if the static spot gets pushed into a dark area for composition, while the tracking puts and keeps the actual focus on the egret's eye, the bird gets blindingly overexposed.

It seems bizarre that the spot METERING and spot FOCUSING wouldn't be the same place, but that's what it appears. I haven't found anything in the camera information about HOW to MAKE the metering move with the tracking spot.

Hi, David,
Check out Mark Galer's tutorial on metering

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

At 15:54 - he talks about spot metering
At 20:20 - "Spot Metering Point" - he talks about tying the spot metering to the focus point. On my A1, this is on menu 15/52

 

[shawns_snapshots]

The spot meter does not follow the real-time-tracking AF point in my experience. I generally use +1ev for dark birds against the sky with multi metering, or set my iso manually, with Zebras at 109+

 

[GracieAllen]

It took me a little while to figure out why what he was showing and my camera didn't match. Then I realized it was 4 years old and for an A7R III. I'm not familiar with that camera - did it have the face/eye focusing and focus tracking?

What he's showing in the video is what happens with the A1 if I turn off face/eye focus and tracking. Then, when I move the static focusing point, the metering moves with it. Which is fine, but it doesn't address the problem I'm seeing - that the actual exposure metering ISN'T being done at the ACTUAL location of the focus point.

Are there different Alpha 1 menus? My menu 15/53 is Exposure Comp. Menu 16 has Metering Mode which is Spot (Large) and Spot Metering Point, which is set to Focus Point Link and has been since day 1.

shawns_snapshots - yes, you're changing the compensation to handle that dark bird. What happens 1/2 second later when a white bird flies over and there's no time to go in and CHANGE the exposure compensation from +1 to -1? The white bird may be blown out.

I don't have a good example of the spot meter at the moment, but here's an example of what APPEARS to happen:

Spot meter, spot focus, face/eye focus, tracking on. Put it on the bird, it locks on the eye.

Re-compose slightly so the bird is off-center. Red rectangle and black circle MOVE OFF the very bright bird's head into a VERY dark area. Actual focus stays ON the eye. Spot meter now sets the exposure based on the dark spot. Bird is massively over-exposed.

 

[-ST-]

It took me a little while to figure out why what he was showing and my camera didn't match. Then I realized it was 4 years old and for an A7R III. I'm not familiar with that camera - did it have the face/eye focusing and focus tracking?

That's why I told you where to find the setting on the A1 - at least, on my A1.

What he's showing in the video is what happens with the A1 if I turn off face/eye focus and tracking. Then, when I move the static focusing point, the metering moves with it. Which is fine, but it doesn't address the problem I'm seeing - that the actual exposure metering ISN'T being done at the ACTUAL location of the focus point.

Are there different Alpha 1 menus? My menu 15/53 is Exposure Comp. Menu 16 has Metering Mode which is Spot (Large) and Spot Metering Point, which is set to Focus Point Link and has been since day 1.

I'm not sure why you've got 53 menus, and I have 52 (on my A1).
I'm running firmware version 1.31 and
15/52 is "Metering"
and the third sub-option there is "Spot Metering Point"
and you can set that to "Focus Point Link"

At any rate, maybe that doesn't work with tracking.

What version is your firmware?

Somewhere, later in the video, Mark Galer talks about the sunny 16 rule. I got the impression this was for situations where you can't anticipate how the light or composition may change, so you expose for an overall average - if it's a bright sunny day.

Most of the time, if shooting dark birds-in-flight against a brighter sky, I'll set the exposure compensation to +1 EV.

Someday
If I have the presence of mind and can anticipate that the background might change a lot, then I might set the metering mode to "Highlight". That should guarantee that I won't blow out the highlights, but it may mean I have to recover the shadows in post.

 

[GracieAllen]

I think I figured out the menu numbering... I have two menus in My Menu, so they get counted and the total count becomes 53 instead of 52.
So my 16 is your 15, and all's well. I'm also using 1.31.

Hopefully, someone will pop in and tell us how to make the spot metering follow the tracking, but it may be one of the things the Alpha 1 just doesn't do. Which makes spot metering less useful than it could be. Even my 6-year-old Nikons metered where the spot focus was, but they didn't have tracking.

Yeah, the Sunny 16 rule predates the pre-match-needle metering cameras of the 1960s.

BTW: I tried the highlight metering and it did avoid blowing out the highlights, but white birds in green foliage were very dark. I may have to try playing with it again, but when I tried it, it underexposed a lot.

At this point, it looks like when I've got snowy egrets, blue herons, and anhinga/cormorants it's going to be the multi meter and a lot of messing with exposure compensation like a decade or so ago. Hopefully, there's a configuration that I missed that'll address this.

I've watched a number of Mark Galer and other Sony experts videos, but I don't remember ever having anyone talk about the mismatch between spot metering and focus tracking. Does anyone have a pointer to an Alpha 1 video where they look at this?

 

[Gaz]

There’s a setting on my A7iv to have spot metering track focus points. It’s gotta be in the menu somewhere.

Zebras are meant to be a warning that you’ll have over-exposed areas. It relies on your intervention if you are seeing zebras ie you should adjust shutter speed or aperture or iso or all three. For birds in flight I prefer to use auto iso, min SS setting and aperture priority, adjusting aperture until the zebs disappear.

I programmed AEL button to adopt a program hold for still subjects while I’m shooting fast subjects. Mark Galer has a video on how to set it up, but you then set your camera for action (or you could program it for light colored) birds but hold down the program button while you shoot still (or in your case dark coloured) birds. When the program button is released, the camera goes back to your action (light coloured) settings.


Did you say you tried average metering with ev zero?

 

[GracieAllen]

Does the A7 iv have face/eye focusing and tracking? As near as I can tell, the problem in the example above ISN'T having metering use "focus points", it's that metering DOESN'T use the ACTUAL focus point the tracking is using. It's using the STATIC focus point (the red box with the circle around it). It does that FINE. Except that's NOT where the camera is focusing and it may not be the correct exposure... Again, as in the example, the spot meter is reading the exposure in a dark area of tree INSTEAD of the bright, white bird head.

I know what the zebras are telling me. And much like a decade+ ago when cameras had less dynamic range and the matrix/multi-metering was far less sophisticated, I'm back to frequently having to manually correct the exposure so I don't wind up with severely blown out highlights.

It's working, it's just a bit of a PITA at times.