What's going on in this forum!

[Uncle Kevriano]

This is one reason I made this post, and is exactly what I'm getting at. If no one comments, likes or gives any feedback, then what's the point. There's a definite jealousy vibe with some people, no question, and there are others who try to be disruptive and actually quite disrespectful, but thankfully they don't post much.
I get that if you've not been out you have nothing to post maybe, but I had months of not going out and still stayed active.
I know not everyone has the time I sometimes do, but it only takes a couple of minutes to like something.

Also, I noticed there isn't as much interaction or feedback here as there used to be. So to be honest, even when I take pictures sometimes I feel like the there is not much point on posting them if they won't generate much interest.

 

[etiennescamera]

Perhaps one should look at people's expectations when joining a forum like this. Why did you join?

• To learn more about photography?
• To pick up some useful tips and tricks?
• To stay informed about Sony and related developments?
• To interact with like minded people?
• To showcase your own photos?
• Other?

Are your expectations being met and if not, what are you doing to change the situation?

Unfortunately it also seems to me that a few members who used to be very active, have left the forum, some because they no longer use Sony gear, but some also because there seemed to be personal clashes with other members and I am not too sure what happened behind the scenes in those cases.

As far as the competitions go, I will keep entering even if there is no financial incentive, simply because it is something I enjoy doing.

 

[Unframed Dave]

A couple of points kev, I don't follow posts that are aeons old, like your photo of the week, or post your bifs here. They just don't appeal to me, I like stuff that's happening now and as you know, my memory doesn't withstand for very long, so keeping up with long threads is an issue to me.

Then there are certain subjects, where I may appreciate the photography but have strong negative feelings about the subject, i.e. the recent graffiti thread. I can't really like it or comment positively as I dislike graffiti with a passion, no offence intended to the OP. I will comment where I can offer something.

Just as a comparison, the shooting site I help moderate has in the region of 40K members, I reckon less than 200 contribute regularly and the number of posts is dropping annually. Forums have probably had their day.

 

[Uncle Kevriano]

A couple of points kev, I don't follow posts that are aeons old, like your photo of the week, or post your bifs here. They just don't appeal to me, I like stuff that's happening now and as you know, my memory doesn't withstand for very long, so keeping up with long threads is an issue to me.

Then there are certain subjects, where I may appreciate the photography but have strong negative feelings about the subject, i.e. the recent graffiti thread. I can't really like it or comment positively as I dislike graffiti with a passion, no offence intended to the OP. I will comment where I can offer something.

Just as a comparison, the shooting site I help moderate has in the region of 40K members, I reckon less than 200 contribute regularly and the number of posts is dropping annually. Forums have probably had their day.

Re Photo of the Week. No one seems to get involved generally, but when I posted and said I seemed to be the only one, loads of others decided to. Weird that. It's something Tim started and I posted every week in the first year, but we had more active members then, and I was more active in life too.
I certainly don't comment on everything, but I do on a lot, but sometimes, if I don't like the image or it's a bad photo for other reasons, I won't say anything or put a like on.
Forums probably have had their day, sadly, but it's still way better than the Facebook pages that are full of spammers, idiots and generally not nice people, which we don't get, or if we do are easily dealt with. This format is still the best place to get experienced advice.

 

[alexpler]

A couple of points kev, I don't follow posts that are aeons old, like your photo of the week, or post your bifs here. They just don't appeal to me, I like stuff that's happening now and as you know, my memory doesn't withstand for very long, so keeping up with long threads is an issue to me.

Then there are certain subjects, where I may appreciate the photography but have strong negative feelings about the subject, i.e. the recent graffiti thread. I can't really like it or comment positively as I dislike graffiti with a passion, no offence intended to the OP. I will comment where I can offer something.

Just as a comparison, the shooting site I help moderate has in the region of 40K members, I reckon less than 200 contribute regularly and the number of posts is dropping annually. Forums have probably had their day.

I feel the opposite. For me it's easier to keep up with themed threads than having to check many separate threads for just a picture. Easier and more convenient imo.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

The New Posts Listing makes it easy to jump in at the latest post not seen yet, however long/old the thread is. That, or equivalent, is how I approach other forums too.

 

[Tim Mayo]

Here's a stat for you. Apart from my replies to things there has been 1 other post on the whole forum since 10:43pm last night.... ONE!

This is why it will die and why it's way down the list on Google.

Over the past week there have been 276 reactions, 219 posts and 22 new threads created. Looks like you created 3 threads and 31 posts Kev.

I think we all know that you are one of the most active members here, so I can understand your frustration with the pace of things right now.

There is no disputing that the figures are down compared to this time last year. Google hit the site in September and again in March, but it was the March core update which hit the traffic and new user registrations to the forum the hardest.

Here’s a look at the new registrations over the past 12 months.

They literally fell off the cliff when the March Google core update was released. This in turn has impacted new threads, posts and interactions heavily.

There was another update last month that seems to have favoured the site again a little more, but traffic is still far from where it used to be.

Even some of the main news sites (which I don’t think I’ve ever seen writing articles on Google updates before), decided to write about this one: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20240524-how-googles-new-algorithm-will-shape-your-internet

The lack of interaction here has nothing to do with why the rankings are down, and besides 80 percent of forum sign-ups here come from all of the links I have over on the blog. Only 10 percent are coming from forum related search terms such as: Sony Camera Forum, Sony Alpha Forum, Sony A7III Forum etc..

We did used to rank first for all of the camera + forum terms, until we consolidated the forums. But I was expecting that drop as a result, and we are still usually in the top 5 for the new consolidated forums, and most people looking for forums will take a look at the first few results anyway.

Currently we rank 6th in Google in the US and 3rd in the UK for Sony Alpha Forum. Although results will vary between mobile, desktop and also different regions. Having personalised results turned on (normally default) can also deliver different results.

SonyAlphaForum ranks first when I check Google US and UK. But if Google ranked forums purely based on their level of engagement, then I’m not sure why that forum sits at the top (well, I do know but I won’t bore you with the technical details).

They have 4x the number of members that we have here (apparently), yet looking at the few posts a lot less engagement than here. Probably because of all the spam ad posts linking to Amazon from the admin there.

But it’s not only Google's manipulation of the search results for their financial benefit that is impacting activity here. There are many existing members who have been quieter recently as well.

Everyone has their own reasons, and personally I don’t mind in the slightest if people want to take a break from the forum.

Almost two years ago I was diagnosed with testicular cancer. Whilst I was waiting for my scan results to see how far it had spread (three very long weeks), all I could think about was that there was a very real possibility that I wouldn’t be around to see and support my boys growing up. I reflected a lot on life during those weeks and never once did I wish that I’d spent more time on internet forums.

Thankfully it was just stage one, and had not spread any further. I was very fortunate and also avoided chemo, just 5 years of close observation.

I decided from that point on that I’d be spending a lot more time with my family making memories than I would on the Internet, especially as my mom was diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer around the same time, despite never smoking in her life.

That said, forums are unfortunately falling out of favour, especially with the younger generations.

We lost POTN last year and even DPReview came very close to shutting down. Other forum admins sold out because they were struggling to pay the bills or they’d simply had enough of forum management.

So you are probably right Kev. At some point this forum will most likely die, but it won’t be in 2024 unless WW3 breaks out.

 

[Unframed Dave]

An interesting read Tim, not sure I understand it all, but I try.

A lot of us have had life changing moments and man, they really give you focus. Not many folks understand why I retired as early as I did, I was self employed and at one time, we were running three small businesses consecutively, it wears you out. Having seen my father watch his pension figures almost monthly and continuing to work way beyond it being necessary, and then regretting not spending more time with my mother after she passed was a real eye opener. I vowed then not to work another day beyond the point I needed to despite loving every job I've ever had.

I agree in part that being on Internet forums possibly isn't the greatest use of our time, but I have made many good friends from forum interactions, mainly in the shooting world but also here. Don't discount that.

Another point I'll mention is that I have been considering becoming a site supporter for some time, but as we're discussing, will the site continue? Will it be worth visiting? It's a bit circular, if the forum isn't moving forward, contributions drop off or don't get made in the first place, the forum dies of increasing costs and dropping support.

Just thoughts and ramblings.

 

[FowlersFreeTime]

I wish we could get some of the traffic that funnels into the Facebook groups. The A6400 group is super active! A6600/6700 slightly less so.
I guess that its not possible because the convenience of already being on the social media platform trumps the effort of navigating/contributing on the forum. Pity.
I prefer this forum to the Facebook group(s) because there's less spam and I like quality over quantity. I've also learned so much more here than answering newbie questions on the A6400 Facebook group. Besides, you're a good group of folks, I think I'll stay

 

[-ST-]

@Tim Mayo
Thanks for all the information about the forum. Most importantly, though, it sounds like the worst of the medical concerns are behind you. I hope I read that correctly.

All the best, Tim,
ST

 

[Richard A]

I have only been a member here for a little over six months. I had no problem at all becoming a site supporter straight away. I haven’t been a member of a lot of forums but I have never been more active on any others than I am on here.

One thing I have noticed over the last couple of months is that a lot of new members have been inactive quite soon after they join for some reason. I’m not sure what to make of that.

 

[Brownie]

Jesus. They leave because there's no activity.

It's been a few days shy of 6-months since I've posted, April 3 to be specific. Or as Tim would put it, 'around March time'. Coincidence?

Everything Tim is posting points to no new members and he's blaming it on search engines algorithms. While I'm sure that has something to do with it, if a forum doesn't have activity, it will drop to the bottom of the search engines.

The reason there is no engagement is that the person who made nearly 5,000 posts in about 2-1/2 years stopped posting. The person who religiously started posts about new gear and rumors, the person who tried to react or comment to almost every new post, the person who engaged in sometimes argumentative or confrontational posts (which in turn caused more interaction). The person who did most of that in an effort to further the forum, and none of it that hurt the forum.

Of course, all of that was ok when the forum was floundering, it put it near the top on Google and Bing. (BTW, it's still #2 on Bing) Then once the forum found its legs, the decision was made to crack down on posts that weren't friendly. I translate that to:

"So, thanks for what you did, now change your persona or I'll delete your posts."

So, I stopped posting. And...oh...look...the forum is once again floundering. The number of people who left because of my 'aggressive' style is vastly exceeded by those who came and stayed because of the added forum activity.

You can post all the data you like, the short answer is forum interaction is down because the most intentionally active, dedicated member stopped posting. Laugh, call me a narcissist or self-important. The evidence is undeniable. The only thing that surprises me is how long it took.

And for those who aren't happy about me being here again (and I'm sure there are several), don't worry. I have no intention of being active on a forum while constantly looking over my shoulder. To those who've PM'ed and asked where I've been, if everything is ok, or came to other forums where I'm active, thanks!

 

[Tim Mayo]

Jesus. They leave because there's no activity.

It's been a few days shy of 6-months since I've posted, April 3 to be specific. Or as Tim would put it, 'around March time'. Coincidence?

Everything Tim is posting points to no new members and he's blaming it on search engines algorithms. While I'm sure that has something to do with it, if a forum doesn't have activity, it will drop to the bottom of the search engines.

The reason there is no engagement is that the person who made nearly 5,000 posts in about 2-1/2 years stopped posting. The person who religiously started posts about new gear and rumors, the person who tried to react or comment to almost every new post, the person who engaged in sometimes argumentative or confrontational posts (which in turn caused more interaction). The person who did most of that in an effort to further the forum, and none of it that hurt the forum.

Of course, all of that was ok when the forum was floundering, it put it near the top on Google and Bing. (BTW, it's still #2 on Bing) Then once the forum found its legs, the decision was made to crack down on posts that weren't friendly. I translate that to:

"So, thanks for what you did, now change your persona or I'll delete your posts."

So, I stopped posting. And...oh...look...the forum is once again floundering. The number of people who left because of my 'aggressive' style is vastly exceeded by those who came and stayed because of the added forum activity.

You can post all the data you like, the short answer is forum interaction is down because the most intentionally active, dedicated member stopped posting. Laugh, call me a narcissist or self-important. The evidence is undeniable. The only thing that surprises me is how long it took.

And for those who aren't happy about me being here again (and I'm sure there are several), don't worry. I have no intention of being active on a forum while constantly looking over my shoulder. To those who've PM'ed and asked where I've been, if everything is ok, or came to other forums where I'm active, thanks!

I know you'd like to believe that activity dropped because you stopped posting Tim, but that doesn't surprise me. It might of had a small impact but not as much as you'd like to think.

An old member told me that you are poison and would do more harm here than good, although I didn't necessarily agree with him at the time it turns out he was correct.

I have never threatened to delete your content or anybody else’s, here was our last exchange before you stormed off:

I don't think he was purposefully "picking" on your technique he was just giving his own opinion which is what we were asking for, even if panning wasn't the subject of this thread you provided it as an example. I'd say it's fair game to provide critique on photos when they are posted in this manner. If you specifically said "please don't post critique on this image" or had the option checked in your profile then that's different, but then there's not much point in posting the photo in the first place if you don't want anyone to comment on it. Either way, as admins we need to be nice to people here and lead by example no matter how people might rub us up. Not everyone cares about posting perfectly composed photos, many photographers are just happy to go out and enjoy shooting whatever they choose to shoot. Yes some would like to improve but others couldn't care less providing they are enjoying themselves and that's all that matters in my view.

Then I sent you a message a few weeks later to see what you were up to which you didn't reply to:

Hey Tim,

Just checking to see if you are still with us?

I hope your eyes have recovered from your ops now.

I'm guessing you are still pissed off about our last exchange.

I know you are someone who likes a debate and providing that remains friendly and doesn't paint this forum in a bad light then I have no issues with that.

However, I want to keep public exchanges between members here as clean as possible and I'm not giving as much slack here as I have done so in the past. I will have words with anyone who can't communicate nicely with others members regardless of how long they have been here for.

I do very much appreciate all of your help with the forum both on the admin side this year and your public posts. You have certainly played a large part in keeping this forum alive.

I will miss you (bar a few posts) if you decide to stay away and I'm sure I won't be the only one.

Obviously it's entirely up to you at the end of the day.

If you are no longer happy here but can't decide on another forum to call home then I can provide some tips on the technical side of setting up your own forum if you wanted to have a bash at that.

All the best,
Tim

Don't worry, I will remove your account and images within the next 48 hours.

 

[Tim Mayo]

An interesting read Tim, not sure I understand it all, but I try.

A lot of us have had life changing moments and man, they really give you focus. Not many folks understand why I retired as early as I did, I was self employed and at one time, we were running three small businesses consecutively, it wears you out. Having seen my father watch his pension figures almost monthly and continuing to work way beyond it being necessary, and then regretting not spending more time with my mother after she passed was a real eye opener. I vowed then not to work another day beyond the point I needed to despite loving every job I've ever had.

I agree in part that being on Internet forums possibly isn't the greatest use of our time, but I have made many good friends from forum interactions, mainly in the shooting world but also here. Don't discount that.

Another point I'll mention is that I have been considering becoming a site supporter for some time, but as we're discussing, will the site continue? Will it be worth visiting? It's a bit circular, if the forum isn't moving forward, contributions drop off or don't get made in the first place, the forum dies of increasing costs and dropping support.

Just thoughts and ramblings.

Congratulations on retiring early Dave, I know full well that running your own business is a 24/7 job with very little let up.

I'll definitely be retiring early if possible, although I enjoy what I do thankfully.

I didn't mean to imply that spending time on forums is a complete waste of time for everyone, we all value things differently at different stages in our lives, and I'm sure I'll also view it differently again when my boys have flown the nest or don't want to talk to their old dad any more

The site will certainly continue, I have no plans in the foreseeable to close it down. A lot of people mention to me how useful it is (both the blog and forum), so I wouldn't like to take that away from people unless I really had to for whatever reasons.

Although I might not be posting so much myself, I'll certainly be doing my best to keep things running as smoothly as possible. Now that I'm finished with setting up our dog field I'll hopefully also have a little more time to start shooting again myself.

It would be great if you became a site supporter and very much appreciated. Maybe just hold off for a few weeks though as I'll be updating the forum software soon and there will be changes to the payment system, I might also reduce the price.

Thanks for your thoughts and ramblings

 

[Tim Mayo]

@Tim Mayo
Thanks for all the information about the forum. Most importantly, though, it sounds like the worst of the medical concerns are behind you. I hope I read that correctly.

All the best, Tim,
ST

Thank you. Yes the worst is hopefully behind me now. Just get a little worried when it’s scan time but so far so good.